[Dixielandjazz] Small Band Swing or Dixieland

[Harry Callaghan]

I'm with you, Steve..........let 'em show you their stinking badges.
HC
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Stephen G Barbone <
barbonestreet at earthlink.net> wrote:

>
> On Feb 17, 2011, at 2:20 AM, dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com wrote:
>
> Marvin Ipswich <cornet at clearwire.net>
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I am a little perplexed by your latest posting on this subject. The
>> original
>> post was referring to the recording by James P. Johnson of After You've
>> Gone. My point was I don't consider *that session* to be dixieland. That
>> session has nothing to do with the other sessions pointed out in your
>> latest
>> email.
>>
>> Marek Boym, very rightly I might add, brought up the session by Ed Hall
>> with
>> a similar personnel stating it as dixieland. I agree.
>>
>> NOW - on to the recordings of I've Found a New Baby mentioned in your last
>> post.
>>
>> I've been quite familiar with those sessions for years, having originally
>> owned them on 78 - ages before Sudhalter had written his first book on
>> Bix.
>> My contention, which I can hear with my own ears, is that Freeman's
>> session
>> is dixieland and Wilson's is swing - regardless of the point Sudhalter is
>> making. That's his opinion. (BTW, I have the greatest respect for the late
>> Mr. Sudhalter, but don't believe everything written in his books is
>> gospel.)
>>
>> In the case of the two above mentioned recordings, I would totally agree
>> with the press at the time, which would have placed these in the same
>> categories that I have. Again, just because Mr. Sudhalter disagreed
>> doesn't
>> really mean a whit to me. Those were his opinions. There was a great deal
>> written about small band swing and dixieland before the publication of
>> "Lost
>> Chords."
>>
>> Here again, I'm perplexed as to why you have brought up these other
>> comments, Condon's "we called it music" and Roy Eldridge about dixieland.
>> Neither of these things have any bearing on the original post regarding
>> After You've Gone. Just to point out to you, I'm very familiar with Mr.
>> Condon, his music and his opinions. And the quote from Roy Eldridge, which
>> you seem to bring up with some frequency, seems totally out of context,
>> since he was commenting on a band playing dixieland. I hardly think he was
>> summing up his entire career's work as "dixieland." I certainly can't
>> believe anyone in the right mind would think that "Smack" by the Chocolate
>> Dandies, "Heckler's Hop" by his own band, or "Swing is Here" by Gene Krupa
>> (just three examples) are "dixieland."
>>
>> Steve, let me ask you a hypothetical question. If you were stocking the
>> shelves in a record store in 1945, and you had the following categories:
>> Dixieland
>> Small band swing
>>
>> Where would you put the following:
>>
>> Ed Hall on Commodore - "The Man I Love"
>> Bunny Berigan on Vocalion - "It's Been So Long"
>> Fats Waller and His Rhythm on Victor  - "Aint' Misbehavin"
>> Louis Armstrong with the Mills Bros. on Decca "My Darling Nellie Grey"
>> Harry James on Brunswick "Jubilee"
>>
>
> Marvin:
>
> I am perplexed that you are perplexed. <grin>
>
> If you do not see my point that's OK with me. Different points of view are
> what makes up this world, whether musically or otherwise.
>
> My point is straight forward an seems quite logical to me. The two
> categories have considerable overlap. And that in most cases, small band
> swing was by Black Musicians and Dixieland was by White musicians even
> though the two styles were the same in many cases. Even today we get that
> "Blacks don't play Dixieland" statement which is hogwash in my experience
> since I sometimes have 4 in my band. Oops, am I therefore playing Small Band
> Swing? Or perhaps Swinging Dixieland?
>
> I agree with you that the way a song is played determines what the style of
> music is.  I disagreed with Marek's contention that certain musicians were
> "known" as Dixieland musicians. I pointed out that the musicians in question
> classified themselves as musicians, NOT DIXIELAND MUSICIANS. I would ask the
> question, just who are the "Dixieland" musicians? An invention of the fans
> perhaps?
>
> Regarding small band swing v Dixieland I posted Sudhalter's point of view.
> He felt the Wilson record was similar in form to the Freeman record with
> polylinearity and band riffing implying that both records should perhaps be
> classified the same way. Take your choice.
>
> Now you and Marek may disagree and that's fine with me. However those who
> believe that the Wilson record is not similar in musical form should cite
> why if they want to back up their opinion, rather than just say they are
> familiar with the recordings and it is not Dixieland and that Freeman's was
> Dixieland. That is simply meaningless opinion and points to the problems of
> defining what Dixieland is.
>
> Regarding Eldridge's quote, he was of course not summing up his entire
> career as Dixieland. Who, among white or black jazz musicians would?
>
> As to where I would put the records you list if I was stocking a record
> store in 1945, I can't answer that in 2011. Today, however, I would stock
> them as Jazz, and list them alphabetically. <grin>
>
> Regarding how posts change and the content of my post, who elected you list
> policeman to tell anyone how to post, or whether or not to add to or even
> change subjects???????
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
> www.myspace.com/barbonestreetjazzband
>
>
>
>
>
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