[Dixielandjazz] Small Band Swing

[Marek Boym]

Oh, well...
Strangely enough, before Wilbur de Paris organized his New New Orleans
Jazz Band, the de Paris brothers recorded for Commodore.  And guess
what?  Their music was much closer to New Orleans or Chicago than to
what they had been playing from the 1930's to mid-1940's.  And even
the same band referred to by Steve, with one change - Ed Hall instead
of Ben Webster, and with Sidney de Paris as nominal leader, sounded
like that, although Hall, too, had played with swing bands, and made
quire a few small band records that could hardly be described as
Dixieland.
Cheers

On 15 February 2011 17:49, Marvin Ipswich <cornet at clearwire.net> wrote:
> Steve B wrote:
>
> "In NYC as the big swing bands started to fold, many of the black swing
> players, in order to make  living, shifted to what I would call
> "Dixieland", but the media and talking heads called "Small Band
> Swing". Below is an example. "After You've Gone" with pretty much of a
> Dixieland instrumentation. Circa 1944.
>
> Personnel for The Blue Note Jazzmen, led by James P. Johnson, are:
>
> Sidney DeParis (tpt); Vic Dickenson  (tb); Ben Webster (tsax), James P
> Johnson (pno), Jimmy Shirley (gui); John Simmons (bs); Sid Catlett (dms.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gh_YLQWy8k
>
> When I grew up in New York, there was a lot of this type of music to
> be heard, both on 52nd Street and in Harlem. Might what we hear on the
> link properly be called Black New York Style Dixieland?
>
> In any event not much of this style was recorded and it is pretty much
> ignored today. That's a pity because it swings its ass off, ensemble,
> solos and rhythm."
>
> Steve,
> The term "small band swing" goes back at least to 1935-36 with groups
> playing on 52nd Street - bands like Stuff Smith, John Kirby, the Spirits of
> Rhythm, Frankie Newton's band, et. al. I certainly wouldn't ever consider
> that to be called dixieland. Louis Prima and Wingy Manone - maybe. But even
> Wingy recorded with Chu Berry, whom I don't consider to be a dixieland
> musician by any stretch.  I believe the term "small band swing" was firmly
> in place by that time and being used in the press, by the public and by
> musicians.
>
> I often think - 'what would the musicians themselves call the music they
> played?" Do you really believe that DeParis, Vic, Ben and Catlett would call
> themselves dixieland musicians? I doubt it, although I also doubt they would
> even consider themselves swing musicians, especially since the music was
> still called jazz at that time. It also seems to me that even though the
> DeParis brothers later played in would might be termed by some a "dixieland"
> band, I don't think Wilbur ever referred to it that way, calling it the "New
> New Orleans" Jazz Band. Both brothers had a long history of work with swing
> bands like Don Redman and Benny Carter.
>
> Referencing the version by James P.'s band of After You've Gone, I can't
> honestly call "Victory Stride," from the same session, a dixieland
> recording.
>
> It might be more useful to consider what the music was referred to at the
> time. What would a review in Downbeat of the above mentioned After You've
> Gone, refer to the music as? Likely it would be "small band swing" since, as
> I stated above, that was the generally used term.
>
> Regards,
> Marvin
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