[Dixielandjazz] Small Band Swing

[Marvin Ipswich]

Steve B wrote:

"In NYC as the big swing bands started to fold, many of the black swing
players, in order to make  living, shifted to what I would call
"Dixieland", but the media and talking heads called "Small Band
Swing". Below is an example. "After You've Gone" with pretty much of a
Dixieland instrumentation. Circa 1944.

Personnel for The Blue Note Jazzmen, led by James P. Johnson, are:

Sidney DeParis (tpt); Vic Dickenson  (tb); Ben Webster (tsax), James P
Johnson (pno), Jimmy Shirley (gui); John Simmons (bs); Sid Catlett (dms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gh_YLQWy8k

When I grew up in New York, there was a lot of this type of music to
be heard, both on 52nd Street and in Harlem. Might what we hear on the
link properly be called Black New York Style Dixieland?

In any event not much of this style was recorded and it is pretty much
ignored today. That's a pity because it swings its ass off, ensemble,
solos and rhythm."

Steve,
The term "small band swing" goes back at least to 1935-36 with groups
playing on 52nd Street - bands like Stuff Smith, John Kirby, the Spirits of
Rhythm, Frankie Newton's band, et. al. I certainly wouldn't ever consider
that to be called dixieland. Louis Prima and Wingy Manone - maybe. But even
Wingy recorded with Chu Berry, whom I don't consider to be a dixieland
musician by any stretch.  I believe the term "small band swing" was firmly
in place by that time and being used in the press, by the public and by
musicians.

I often think - 'what would the musicians themselves call the music they
played?" Do you really believe that DeParis, Vic, Ben and Catlett would call
themselves dixieland musicians? I doubt it, although I also doubt they would
even consider themselves swing musicians, especially since the music was
still called jazz at that time. It also seems to me that even though the
DeParis brothers later played in would might be termed by some a "dixieland"
band, I don't think Wilbur ever referred to it that way, calling it the "New
New Orleans" Jazz Band. Both brothers had a long history of work with swing
bands like Don Redman and Benny Carter.

Referencing the version by James P.'s band of After You've Gone, I can't
honestly call "Victory Stride," from the same session, a dixieland
recording.

It might be more useful to consider what the music was referred to at the
time. What would a review in Downbeat of the above mentioned After You've
Gone, refer to the music as? Likely it would be "small band swing" since, as
I stated above, that was the generally used term.

Regards,
Marvin