[Dixielandjazz] Dogfight!!!

[Rickz]

Gee,

I didn't realize it was so important for everybody to be RIGHT.  See, 
we're just talking
about playing.   We're not playing.

Don't think it hasn't been interesting, because it hasn't.

So, far, I've been wrong, wrong, wrong... and Bob Schultz say's if he 
said that
he must have been drunk.

CU,

Rick





On 12/28/2011 3:08 PM, Jim O'Briant wrote:
> John McClernan wrote:
>
>> A band that is marching would not have a reason to use the term
>> "dogfight" in performance. They would use it in rehearsal only. No
>> drum major ever yelled out "dogfight" while his band was playing and
>> marching.  Concert band conductors would use it for rehearsal
>> purposes.  It's like saying, "take it from letter C".
> And like "Rehearsal letter C," "Dogfight" is a term with a specific meaning.
>
> As Scott Anthony noted in an earlier message today, not every trad tune has
> a "dogfight." Not every march has one either. But when they do, it is NOT
> the final time on the final chorus or strain.
>
> The "dogfight" or "break strain" is an separate strain, almost always played
> BETWEEN repetitions of the final strain (the TRIO strain of a march). They
> are of varying length; examples exist that are 8, 12, 16, 10 or 24 measures
> in length. Most often they begin in a minor key, usually the relative minor
> to the major key of that final strain, and modulate once or twice or more
> before ending on the V7 (dominant seventh) chord which leads back to the
> final strain.
>
> In another message, John McClernan wrote:
>
>> But it's not the Out Chorus... altho it could be.
> And in another message he wrote:
>
>> The dogfight chorus in a trad jazz band comes before the out chorus,
>> unless it IS the out chorus. If you listen, you can hear it after the
>> front line takes choruses.
> Except that the "dogfight" is NOT the out chorus. To call the out chorus the
> "dogfight" is to mis-use the term "dogfight."
>
> Rick Jolley wrote:
>
>> I don't give a damn what they do in Marches.  Trad Jazz is dance
>> music, don't you know???
> You're missing the point, Rick. "Dogfight: is not a verb, it's a noun. It
> refers to a specific kind of strain that is found in some marches and in
> some trad jazz tunes. It is not an ensemble chorus; it is not the out
> chorus. It is a separate strain, in a key related to the key of the out
> chorus (or to the TRIO of a march), which provides contrast between
> statements of the final chorus (or march TRIO).
>
> "Dogfight" is not a way of playing, it's a specific structural part of some
> tunes.
>
> Here's an example of that structure:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUy9mkOd2Us
>
> The march is "Barnum and Bailey's Favorite," played by the Cleveland
> Symphonic Winds under Frederick Fennell.
>
> Time	Structural Description
>
> 0:00	Introduction
> 0:10	Vamp (not repeated the way the vamp may be in popular tunes)
> 0.12	"A" strain
> 0:25 	"A" strain repeated
> 0:37 	"B" strain
> 0:49	"B" strain repeated
> 1:03	Transition (also called "interlude," "modulation passage," or
> 	"Introduction to the TRIO)
> 1:06	TRIO strain
> 1:19	TRIO strain repeated
> 1:32	Dogfight (also called "break strain;" sometimes called "interlude")
> 1:45	Reprise of TRIO
> 1:58	Reprise of Dogfight
> 2:12	Second reprise of TRIO
>
> Again, the above terminology is correct for analysis of the musical
> structure of this composition. It does not relate in any way to who is
> playing, how many players are playing, or in what style they are playing.
>
> As has been stated earlier in this thread, without the "Dogfight," there
> would be four consecutive repetitions of the same strain -- the first two
> scored lightly and played softly, the third&  fourth scored fully&  played
> loudly. The Dogfight serves to break this up and provide melodic, harmonic
> and rhythmic contrast.
>
> If one were to do "Barnum and Bailey's Favorite" as a trad tune with a trad
> band, the basic structure and terminology would be exactly the same. A band
> would probably play down to the Transition (1:03 in the recording) with the
> full ensemble. Then, it's likely that the first TRIO strain would be an
> ensemble chorus, and then where the TRIO is repeated there would be several
> repeats, with different players taking solos, trading 4s, and all the other
> stuff that trad bands do. But when that's done the Dogfight strain comes
> next. If we're following the above structure, there would at this point be:
>
> * the Dogfight
> * an ensemble chorus (analogous to the Reprise of the TRIO)
>
> The tune might end here, or might continue with:
>
> * the Dogfight again (analogous to the  Reprise of the Dogfight)
> * final or "out" chorus (analogous to the Second Reprise of the TRIO)
>
> Once again, the "dogfight" is a structural device, NOT a way or style of
> playing an ensemble chorus.
>
> Jim O'Briant
> Gilroy, CA
> Tuba&  Leader, The Zinfandel Stompers
>
>
>
>
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