[Dixielandjazz] Charlie Parker ~ Dixieland?

[Harry Callaghan]

Terry:

As to your reference to "sniping", I'll give you a "Broderick Crawford" on
that.

Within a small circle of friends, that's like saying "A Big Ten Four"

I also am not a musician and while I appreciate the contributions so many
DJML subscribers make here,  much of it quite educational, it does become
considerably annoying when it appears to be a game of "Can You Top This".
It reminds me of elementary school tactics, like "My father can beat up your
father" certainly not for supposedly mature adults.which I think we would
all like to regard ourselves as.

Of course, I say this at the risk of offending some, but realizing that it
would only be those who are guilty of what we are talking about.  I imagine
it's something I can live with.

Tides,
HC


On 7/21/10, Terence Coates <terencejcoates at att.net> wrote:
>
> Hello Dan,
>                You should certainly "chime in" much more often.
>
>   Your contribution was one of the most interesting that I have read on the
> DJML; it certainly was much more enjoyable than the petty and intolerant
> sniping that has been showing up on DJML in recent weeks. I appreciate that
> it
> is an open forum, but can't we just accept other people's views without
> feeling
> the need to prove them wrong all of the time?
>
>    I'm a jazz fan of long standing - no old jokes here please - but,
> unfortunately, not a musician!
>
>    Keep chiming in, Dan.
>
>                             Regards to all,
>
>                                              Terry.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Daniel Barrett <danpbarrett at hotmail.com>
> To: terencejcoates at att.net
> Cc: Sent: Tue, July 20, 2010 10:33:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Charlie Parker ~ Dixieland?
>
>
> Dear Jazz Fans,
>
>
>
> I don't chime in too often, but rather sit back and read with admittedly
> evil
> amusement at various opinions expressed on this site. Most of them have
> little
> to do with my own thoughts and opinions about the music I've loved since
> having
> discovered it in about eighth grade--and which I play for a livelihood.
>
>
>
>
> Many writers refer to how jazz "developed" over the years. I object to that
> term, and prefer the word "changed." "Development" implies improvement. The
> music didn't necessarily "improve," but it certainly changed since Buddy
> Bolden's cornet could be heard for..what was it? A gazillion miles across
> the
> delta.
>
>
>
> To me, there are as many "styles" of jazz as there are (and were) men and
> women
> playing it. Remember, it's the critics, writers, and--yes--fans such as
> those
> who subscribe to the DJML who came up with the labels and "schools." Eddie
> Condon's comment on the subject was the title of his book, We Called It
> Music.
>
>
>
> I learned a valuable lesson when I moved to New York City in 1983 (where I
> lived
> for almost fourteen years) and began hanging out--and playing at--at Eddie
> Condon's jazz club. The house band (led by cornetist Ed Polcer) played what
> is
> known as "Condon" style, or "Chicago" style jazz. However, the musicians
> who
> heartily supported the bar there alongside the fans came from a wide
> variety of
> jazz "styles." On any given evening, depending on who was in town that
> week, one
> could see: Woody Herman; Clark Terry; Roy Eldridge; Vic Dickenson (who
> played
> there regularly); Kenny Davern; Terry Waldo; Joe Muranyi; Jow Williams;
> Ruby
> Braff; and so many others, of seemingly disparate musical backgrounds.
>
>
>
> They were all musicians, playing their own "style" of jazz, and they were
> all
> trying to make a living in a mercurial business. It's largely only the fans
> who
> disparage musicians who play in a style other than what they like. The
> musicians
> themselves get along with each other just fine, and (with a few exceptions)
> generally respect each other, and enjoy each other's company. (That last
> sentence reminds me that the arrangement of Mack the Knife, recorded by
> Louis
> Armstrong's All-Stars, was penned by Turk Murphy!)
>
>
> In a famous mid-'50s Down Beat magazine "Blindfold Test," Leonard Feather
> played
> a recording of Louis's All-Stars for Miles Davis. Miles identified everyone
> in
> the band (which included Jack Teagarden and Big Sid Catlett). I reclal that
> either in that "Blindfold Test," or on another occasion, Davis had some
> nice
> things to say about Bobby Hackett's playing. Whether Miles knew that Wally
> Rose
> played piano with Lu Watters is a moot point; the real point is, Miles
> Davis--like many other pro players--knew about and tried to stay on top of
> what's happening outside his own circle.
>
>
>
> I just saw clarinetist Mike Baird in a rare (for me) close-to-home gig. We
> reminisced about the month I subbed for Frank Demond at the Club New
> Orleans, in
> Fullerton, California. The band was co-led by Frank and the late Ron Going,
> for
> whom Mike Baird subbed occasionally. I was sixteen or seventeen, and had
> talked
> my parents into letting me play for a month at the club (five nights a
> week!)
> while Frank was himself subbing for an ailing Big Jim Robinson in New
> Orleans.
> (Bless Frank and Ron for giving me that chance at such an early age). The
> band
> was called the Salutation Tuxedo Band, and included: Andy Blakeney on
> trumpet;
> Alton Purnell, piano; Teddy Edwards, drums; Ed "Montudie" Garland, bass;
> Vince
> Saunders, banjo; and--that night--Mike and me.  Andy Blakeney had played
> trumpet
> with King Oliver in Chicago (replacing Bob Schoffner), and later played and
> recorded with Kid Ory's band. Alton Purnell is famous for his tenure with
> George
> Lewis's New Orleans Jazz Band. Ed Garland, the eldest of these men, had
> been in
> King Oliver's band when they traveled from New Orleans to California in
> 1922! He
> too had played with Ory, and many others. I was in the big leagues, man.
>
>
>
> Someone requested Perdido, which I'd heard before, but at that time hadn't
> ever
> played. (I kind of wish I could say that now! But I digress). We launched
> into
> it, and I did the best I could. I was probably all right for the first
> chorus;
> the melody isn't exactly rocket science, you know. However, when we came to
> the
> last chorus, Andy looked over at Mike Baird, and they started in on a wild
> (to
> me) "be-bop" riff. I ducked for cover, and waited until the last eight
> bars,
> when they returned to the melody. That number closed the set.
>
>
>
> I immediately ran over to Mike Baird, and probably shouted, "What WAS that?
> That
> was so NEAT!! Please, Mister Baird, would you write that out for me? I'll
> learn
> it for next time." Mike has been a big help over the years, and that night
> was
> no exception. He chuckled, and while he got a pencil and a sheet of
> manuscript
> paper out of his case, he told me that it was an "old bebop thing that kind
> of
> goes with the song." I was surprised. "But...if it's bebop, how did Andy
> and
> Alton know it? not to mention Tudie Garland..."
>
>
>
> Mike smiled at me and my naive question, and said in his quiet voice,
> "Y'know
> Danny...they've been around a while." I nodded at that, and went off to
> have a
> chocolate milk, or something.  That was my first clue that many pro
> musicians
> bridge several styles, and often try to take and use the best of what they
> hear
> going on around them.
>
>
>
>
> I am blessed and cursed with appreciating a fairly wide variety of jazz.
> Blessed
> because I have so many sources for listening enjoyment; cursed because that
> appreciation has cost me a small fortune (maybe not so small) in 78s; Lps;
> CDs;
> and--more recently--"downloads."  If my tastes were limited to Wooden Joe
> Nicholas and Speckled Red, I'd have saved a whole lot of money on
> recordings
> over the years! Trouble is, I like: Wooden Joe, Speckled Red, Bix, Louis,
> Ellington, Turk, Lester Young, Basie, Gerry Mulligan, Billie Holiday, Ory,
> Teagarden, Dicky Wells, Pee Wee Russell, Lawrence Brown, Bechet, James P.,
> Waller, Eddie Lang, Django, Teddy Wilson, Dave McKenna, Johnny Hodges,
> Ralph
> Sutton, Dick Wellstood, Bob Mielke, Bill Bardin, Leon Oakley, Burt Bales,
> Sidney
> De Paris, Jim Goodwin, Tommy Ladnier, King Oliver, Fletcher (and Horace)
> Henderson, Johnny Dodds, Baby Dodds, Jo Jones, Eddie Condon, Big Joe
> Turner,
> Lucky Thompson, Goodman, Frank Teschmaker, Jimmie Noone, Eddie Miller,
> Glenn
> Miller, Sonny Stitt, Billy Butterfield, Charlie Parker, Clifford
> Brown...well,
> you get the idea.
>
>
>
> It's all out there to be enjoyed. Or disparaged, if that's how you have
> fun.
>
>
>
> I hope to see you at a jazz event sometime soon. The wonderful thing is,
> though
> some of you out there might actually enjoy my playing, it will nonetheless
> be
> too "modern" for some of you, and hopelessly "old-fashioned" for the rest
> of
> you. Me, I can't wait!
>
>
>
> --Dan Barrett, Itinerant Jazz Trombonist.
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:37:04 +0100
> > From: richard.flecknell at ntlworld.com
> > Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Charlie Parker ~ Dixieland?
> > CC: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> > To: danpbarrett at hotmail.com
> >
> > Charlie Parker is not a Dixieland/ Swing player so should we be debating
> him
> > on this site?
> >
> > That's that out of the way - Bill & Jack & Marek switch off or over now.
> >
> > Right I'm a Bunk Johnson, Kid Howard, Bobby Hackett, Ben Webster fan too
> > (and more)
> >
> > Embraceable You ... A Beauty (first 30s - technical brilliance you're
> joking
> > ... simple and to the point - elegant)
> >
> > 73 years on and Bird still causes problems. My daughter, 19, had no
> problem
> > with it. She also said it wasn't elegant but sophisticated.
> >
> > Paul & Steve I'm in agreement with - but everyone is entitled to there
> > opinion of course.
> >
> > Look I don't rate Al Hirt as a jazz musician or the FH5 or Mickey Mouse.
> >
> > I get to Cornet Oleman but not beyond him.
> >
> > And finally an old thought,
> > If Charlie Parker Was a Gunslinger, There'd Be a Whole Lot of Dead
> Copycats
> >
> > Richard
> > back to Punch Miller - try Cock Robin
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
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> > Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
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Alcohol is necessary for a man so that now and then he can have a good
opinion
of himself, undisturbed by the facts

            - Finley Peter Dunne (1867-1936)