[Dixielandjazz] Struck by a Comment NSFW

Wed Mar 25 08:32:20 PDT 2009

I can't remember my source for the word.  I'm thinking it's the Blish: Ragtime, but it may be the Ulanov.  I'm looking.

In New Orleans as late as the early 50's, black and white musicians could not play in the same group.  It is one of the reasons (and listed as such in various biographies) that Louis Armstrong would not play there. He had Jack Teagarden who was not black and wouldn't change the group to play without him.  Louis went back and was king of Zulus (the Afro-American Carnival group/parade) but didn't perform. He did a show in Biloxi in 1953 or so and we drove over there to hear him.

When all of the New Orleans groups/revival were going on note that there are white groups -- Basin street 6, Dukes of Dixieland, Al Hirt when he had Pier 66 and the black groups--Papa Celestine, groups recorded on American Music label etc. Crossover was illegal and wasn't really done.

Mart

Martin D. McKay (Designated Listener)
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tom Belmessieri 
  To: macjazz at comcast.net 
  Cc: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:33 AM
  Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Struck by a Comment NSFW

  Hi Mart,

  Thanks for sharing your perspective.  I have read that, in those days, even the white and black musicians had to sneak off to jam together after hours.  We've come a long way.  As for the origination of the word 'jazz', my understanding is that it evolved from 'jass', which evolved from 'jackass', referring to that 'jackass music', purely a derogitory term from those who disapproved of that type of music.  I'm sure there are other versions or theories.

  Tom B.
  ----------------------------------------------------------

  > From: macjazz at comcast.net
  > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:06:25 -0400
  > Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Struck by a Comment NSFW
  > CC: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
  > To: TBELMO at hotmail.com
  > 
  > I've brought this up before and been criticized for it, but race is a major 
  > factor in this discussion. The fact that jazz was considered (an actually 
  > was) a part of the Afro American society generated much of the perceived 
  > negativisms. The reference was highly derogatory coming from a very straight 
  > white society.
  > 
  > My dad (born in 1908) in Flint, Michigan had to "sneak down across the 
  > tracks" to buy Louis Armstrong records, even in the 20's. They were strictly 
  > a "race record" product and weren't even available in "his part of town." 
  > When he brought them home, his mother wouldn't let him play "that nasty 
  > music" in the house. He had to go down in the basement and into a closed 
  > room even there, to listen to the music.
  > 
  > Also, it is my understanding that "Jazz" or "Jass" was originally a 
  > reference to fornication, not fecal matter.
  > 
  > Mart
  > 
  > Martin D. McKay, (Designated Listener)
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "David Richoux" <tubaman at tubatoast.com>
  > To: "Martin D. McKay" <macjazz at comcast.net>
  > Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
  > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 2:06 AM
  > Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Struck by a Comment NSFW
  > 
  > 
  > > Not quite, Phil...
  > >
  > > From everything I have read on the subject, the closer "dirty word" 
  > > linked to Jazz & Jass was "J*zz" / "J*ss" (or "J*zzum" / "J*ssum" ) (or 
  > > what was found on the "Famous Blue Dress") - the barnyard links were 
  > > also there, but the links to the world of prostitutes and pimps were much 
  > > closer.
  > >
  > > Sorry if anybody was offended by this fact, but it is pretty well 
  > > documented! Maybe knowing the true roots of the music will bring all 
  > > those young people to our performances (but maybe not ;-)
  > >
  > > Dave Richoux
  > >
  > >
  > > On Mar 24, 2009, at 7:47 PM, PHIL WILKING wrote:
  > >
  > >> Just remember that the word "jazz" was first spelled "jass," and it was 
  > >> far from a compliment. When used a century ago by the long established 
  > >> musicians to characterize the music of the younger generation, "jass" 
  > >> was a euphemism for "musical manure," that is: S**T.
  > >>
  > >> Phil Wilking
  > >>
  > >> The New Orleans Banjo Rendez-Vous
  > >> May 14, 15, & 16, 2009
  > >> Visit www.nolabanjo.com for info
  > >>
  > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Gordon" <jerrygordon at juno.com
  > >> >
  > >>
  > >>> If we didn't avoid the J-word, then maybe "civilians" would begin to
  > >>> understand some of what it encompasses.
  > >>>
  > >>
  > >
  > >
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  > 
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