[Dixielandjazz] Backbeat vs. Downbeat

[David Richoux]

Pat, (and all)

Bob Brozman is an excellent musician (and researcher ) and I think he  
was using that analogy to express some very important ideas about  
basic elements of the world's music.

I have been collecting music and information about marching bands,  
brass bands and related things for many years and I see his points on  
this clearly. If you listen to brass bands from India it becomes very  
obvious. They developed under the British military band influence but  
now have the cultural "freedom" to mix in elements of many kinds of  
Indian music.
Listen to "Disco Bhangra - Wedding Bands from Rajasthan" and a few  
other related CDs and you will hear it.

Similar connections between historic European military and popular  
bands in Mexico and the current "Banda" craze, colonial bands in the  
Caribbean and Pacific islands being adapted to local rhythms, the  
whole Balkan Brass rhythms that have spun from Ottoman Empire  
military bands, and there are many other examples in just about any  
"post-colonial" country you can think of!  There is a series of field  
recordings on CD that documents all of this:
Frozen Brass:Africa & Latin America and Frozen Brass: Asia
<http://www.amazon.com/Frozen-Brass-Asia-Various-Artists/dp/B000003704>
<http://www.amazon.com/Frozen-Brass-Africa-Latin-America/dp/ 
B00000370A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1211133594&sr=1-1>  (out of  
print but probably available used somewhere.)

Also, if you just look at the logical transition/development of jazz  
from Civil War military brass bands to circus bands to Black circus  
bands to "New Orleans Brass Bands" to Ragtime to what we call jazz -  
the whole thing is about Downbeat (Western Europe/American music)  
mixing with Backbeat (Afro-Caribbean music.)

If you watch the "backbeat" bands march they do not move at all like  
a "downbeat" marching band - they usually DANCE!  Check out the  
amazing bands from the Southern Black colleges and universities for  
some obvious examples. The film "Drum Line" is a good place to start.

Also, if you listen to the drum cadences in modern US military bands  
you will actually hear a much "jazzier" style that what might have  
been standard in the 1800s.

Not codswollop at all!

Dave Richoux
(heading off to play with my "Rock & Roll Marching Band" - we do  
upbeat and backbeat styles, and are pretty good for being mostly pink  
folks ;-)

On May 18, 2008, at 10:33 AM, pj.ladd wrote:

> Put simply, marching (colonizing) cultures see the
>> downbeat as something to follow, and the "marched-upon" (colonized)
>> cultures see the downbeat as something to react to, >>
>
> Is this codswallop supposed to be serious?
>
> People with marching bands are colonisers.? What aload of rubbish.  
> Every culture that walks on two legs and plays a musical instrument  
> play a rhythm which matches their walk. When they organise groups,  
> who move in step together, winning or losing (which is what defines  
> colonisers or colonised) they have marching bands. What happens  
> when a coloniser is in turn colonised. Do they issue new music to  
> their bands?
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat