[Dixielandjazz] More on Sopramno Sax

Tue Mar 11 20:16:14 PDT 2008

I would have to disagree that all sopranos before 1950 were junk.  The
curved Conns made in the 1920s were superb instruments.  I have a curved
1921 Buescher stencil that has the most extraordinary voice I've ever heard
on a soprano.  It plays in tune, but has some idiosyncracies like all saxes;
especially sopranos.

J. D. Bryce

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry Walton Entertainment - St. Louis" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
To: "Jack Bryce" <brycejo at comcast.net>
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] More on Sopramno Sax

> Yes, I think the other writer meant the C melody sometimes called a C
tenor.
> As far as I know there were never any C soprano's but I suppose there
could
> be.
>
> Most if not all sopranos made before 1950 are pure junk.  Virtually
> impossible to play in tune and the tone is pretty bad.  It takes a killer
> sax player to get anything out of them.  I have such a friend who plays a
> very old curved soprano.  It's cute and he is pretty good on it.  The
first
> one I ever played had two octave keys on it much like an oboe but operated
> with the thumb.  It was awful.  I played on a Selmer soprano about 1960's
> vintage and didn't care for it much.
>
> This experience was duplicated by Sidney Bechet who tried a soprano and
got
> rid of his first one.  He tried again some time later and overcame a lot
of
> the problems some of which were solved by a very large open vibrato.
>
> Manufacturers have gotten a lot of bugs worked out of them and even the
very
> cheap ones are sometimes OK.  I own a Winston and I paid about $300 for
it.
> It's not bad at all and I rather like the sound but the metal is soft and
in
> the year I owned it I had it in the shop three times for adjustments.  It
> fell over on it's stand one time (ouch) which isn't good for any horn but
> the whole instrument was knocked out of alignment including a warped body.
> The high register A and above was also tentative, intonation wise.
>
> I play a Yamaha Custom.  Someone said something about a heavy horn.  The
YC
> is heavy but it plays great and if my reed is in reasonable condition the
> high notes are in tune and speak easily.  I use the curved neck because
with
> the straight neck the neck strap hits my thumb and I don't care for that.
> There is a little difference in sound between the necks but doesn't seem
to
> do anything about intonation.
>
> The Yangasawa has one feature that is really nice in that the G# is forced
> open when the key is pressed and not allowed to open with a spring.  This
> keeps this pad from sticking.  One thing I do is put a silk handkerchief
> corner under my C# key down on the bell.  That keeps it from sticking shut
> and prevents gunk build up on the pad.  If anyone owns one be sure to pull
a
> swab through it after you play.  You do not want to start having a
sticking
> G# pad.  On my Yamaha it's almost impossible to get to with a cleaning
cloth
> or even stick your finger under it to unstick it.  I highly recommend the
> Yamaha Custom but they are pricey somewhere around $3500 now but they are
a
> lot cheaper than the Selmer which is around $6100 now. The Yamaha standard
> models are also good, somewhat lighter and have a little different sound
> that some may like.  Again they are excellent horns too.  They go for
about
> $1800 to $3200   Personal preference but if I didn't have the bucks for
the
> YC I would go for the standard model yss-475.  But whatever you buy see if
> you can try it first.  Personally I don't think the Selmer is worth that
> much.  The Winston goes for $800.  The Yangasawa is around $5200.  I have
> not played on one but I hear they are very nice horns.
>
> The tone of a soprano is always dependent on the horn but the player is
> really the most important.  It goes from sounding like a duck in the low
> range to the typical cut your head off, fish horn sound if the player is
> poor.  I haven't had a lot of these issues and one thing that a soprano
can
> do is project and a clarinet just can't match it especially in the low
> range.
>
> The soprano, should if it's played well, sound very much like an English
> Horn.
>
> Personally I think the Selmer pro model is vastly overpriced and over
rated.
> The guy that repairs horns here was showing off his new Selmer and I
pulled
> out my Winston and played it along side of his Selmer.  Believe it or not
> that $300 Winston sounded better than the Selmer and his playing didn't
> improve anything at all.  I don't think he was a happy camper after that.
> I'm not recommending the Winston over the Selmer for many reasons but I
> wasn't knocked out with its sound.  Likewise if someone bought a Yamaha
the
> first thing they should do is throw away the mouthpiece that comes with it
> and buy anything else.  I'm not a big fan of their mouthpieces.
>
> Since I had nerve damage and had to switch from clarinet to soprano it's
> been interesting.  For a long time I would try to use clarinet fingerings
on
> the soprano.
>
> The soprano is definitely an acquired taste.  It seems like either you
love
> it or hate it with most falling on the hate it side but I think that's
> because there are very few good players on the horn.   IMHO the soprano is
> not for beginners or even the average sax player.  I would only recommend
> anyone play one if and only if their tone and intonation was rock solid on
> one of the other saxes.
>
> Prospective soprano players should have to apply to a committee to be
given
> a permit to buy one much like you have to undergo a background check to
buy
> a hand gun.  The soprano is kind of like a Star Wars Light Saber.  You
play
> a high note and wave it past an audience and watch their heads fall off.
> Now that's raw power.  The difference between a good player and a bad one
is
> the expression on the face of the heads as they tumble to the ground.
They
> don't call them lawn darts for nothin'.
> Larry
> StL
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Don Ingle" <dingle at nomadinter.net>
> To: "Larry Walton Entertainment - St. Louis" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
> Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] More on Sopramno Sax
>
>
> > Confused here. Do youe mean a C-melody Sax" That would be a concert C
> > overtone sax -- Trambauer or Rosy McHargue most noted for it.
> > Of do you mean a Conn Bflat soprano sax -- curved or straight fish horn?
I
> > have my father's Bflat Conn curved Soprano Sax, which he recorded with
> > Spike Jones (Pass the Bisquits Mirandy"), and which he got in Chicago in
> > the mid-'30's from Peter Palmer III, scion of the Palmers of the Palmer
> > House. The young lad had decided to play sax and bought the small
soprano
> > because he thought it would be easier to learn to play being smaller.
> > When he awoke to reality, he basically said screw it and gave it my dad
> > (Red Ingle). I have it, in playing condition and might part with it some
> > day, but not today. (I also have two of his violins as used and recorded
> > with the Natural Seven. Mom sold his tenor, baritone, clarinet, and bass
> > clarinet when he passed.)
> > The little soprano has the most shattering god-awful bark this side of a
> > Mastiff on steroids.
> > Don Ingle
> >
> > Larry Walton Entertainment - St. Louis wrote:
> >>> You will easily find my old Conn C Soprano Sax -- current bid $700.
> >> __________________________________________________________
> >>
> >> It's interesting how much C saxes bring today.  A few years ago they
were
> >> pretty much worthless but they seem to bring pretty good prices on
e-bay
> >> in almost any condition.  I completely restored a 1923 Buescher tenor a
> >> few years ago and it cost about $650 and would have been more if there
> >> were any dents.
> >>
> >> Considering most of these horns haven't seen a repair shop since the
30's
> >> and are costing anywhere between $350 and $700+ then spending another
> >> couple of hundred on restoration would seem to not make sense.  One
would
> >> wonder what people are doing with them?  There aren't that many
authentic
> >> 20-30's bands around that would require the rather unique sound of the
C
> >> to warrant what seems to be the increased interest in the instrument.
> >>
> >> At one time transposed sheet music wasn't readily available and the
idea
> >> was that people could play in their parlors without extra music or
> >> transposition.  I think that it was the "different" sound that they had
> >> plus the instruments reflected the technology of the day (same for the
> >> soprano) was the reason they didn't retain popularity.  The biggest
> >> reason for the C and the soprano to fall by the wayside was the
> >> depression.  People including professional musicians just didn't have
the
> >> money for them and they became a dead end more or less.  The soprano
> >> revived but the  C just didn't.
> >>
> >> Either there is a revival of the C going on, people are buying them as
> >> collectors items and speculating on them or people think they are
buying
> >> tenors.  It's hard to believe that people are buying them to play on
> >> unless they are playing music of the period and want to sound
authentic.
> >>
> >> Some people call them C tenors and they are advertised that way.  There
> >> have been some listed just as tenors on E-bay but their fairly long
> >> narrow bell makes me believe that they are C's.   If someone bought a C
> >> Melody thinking it was a Tenor might not be happy with his purchase.  I
> >> don't think this is dishonesty but rather people buying or inheriting
> >> estates and not knowing what they have.   A Conn tenor in playable
> >> condition and depending on the year it was made and model, brings
> >> somewhere between $500 and $1000 which is in the ballpark.  I could see
> >> people being confused but I don't really understand the demand, that
> >> apparently is there, for the C.   C's in just about any condition seem
to
> >> be bringing around $350.
> >>
> >> I have owned three of them over the years and not one cost over $35 and
I
> >> never sold one for much more and at least one became a wall hanger.
Now
> >> I wish I still had them.  Save your Confederate money.  It seems that
> >> eventually everything rises again.
> >> Larry
> >> St.L
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan McDonald" <stanmm at comcast.net>
> >> To: "Larry Walton" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
> >> Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:46 AM
> >> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Stan McDonald -- recordings, artifacts,
> >> memorabilia
> >>
> >>
> >>> Dear fans and friends (old or new),
> >>>
> >>> I have not engaged in DJML until now, but wanted you to know that I
have
> >>> several of the above sorts of items posted on Ebay. Please check them
> >>> out. I have consignonline doing this for me and they are just
> >>> acclimating to dealing with my/our specialty, so you may have to hunt
a
> >>> bit for things like the tuxedo I wore in 1975 with Bobby Short and
> >>> Claude Hopkins on PBS TV; one of the unique New Black Eagle Jazz Band
> >>> t-shirts that I wore with them on festivals here and in Europe; or an
> >>> original feature article on me in the MIssissippi Rag, Feb. 2003.
> >>>
> >>> You will easily find my old Conn C Soprano Sax -- current bid $700.
> >>>
> >>> I have of course continued active since my departure from the New
Black
> >>> Eagle Jazz Band in 1981, when I founded the Blue Horizon Jazz Band.
You
> >>> might check our name on Ebay for items; the Web under my name, and
also
> >>> our web site: www.bluehorizonjazzband -- and come and hear us live
when
> >>> in the Boston area.
> >>>
> >>> This is my first venture with Ebay, but I have a great deal more stuff
> >>> to put up, depending upon how consignonline works out. I'd appreciate
> >>> your advice on anything I have that you might think of interest. I
have
> >>> a remaining stock of the first BJHB Lp recording as listed on Ebay
that
> >>> I'll send you for $15.00 ppd. in the US. Original shrink wrap with
> >>> extensive notes of trad jazz revival in New England, through the 50's
> >>> and 60's.
> >>>
> >>> With fond regards and thanks for all the dear friendships -- faded or
> >>> not -- and warm regards, always,
> >>>
> >>> Stan McDonald
> >>> Leader, Blue Horizon Jazz Band
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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Jazz
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
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