[Dixielandjazz] A message for Chris Tyle

[Jerry Brown]

A real spat - Oh what fun!!!!

And SB manages to be ageist as well! Very Clever!

Cheers,

Jerry,
Norwich,
U.K.

--- Stephen G Barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> My oh my Chris, you are a frustrated old man aren't
> you?
> 
> When you can't discuss facts and logically support
> your wrong headed  
> opinions, you get personal.  What's new? That is how
> all small men in  
> this world act. Here is a recap and rebuttal of your
> diatribe.
> 
> You stated that Hot Dance was coined to describe is
> big band (over 10  
> piece) music, with hot solos. And was not Dixieland.
>  That conclusion  
> is simply not factual and you supplied no sources
> other than your own  
> unverifiable "research".
> 
>   I supply another person's opinion and you
> immediately put HIM down  
> rather than discussing that opinion. That speaks
> volumes about who you  
> are/aren't.
> 
> Now here are some facts and opinions by others. See
> if you can put  
> these sources down.
> 
> 1)  What is Hot Dance? Here's what Dick Sudhalter
> said in Lost Chords  
> about it:
> 
> "early jazz writers - as writers will - invented
> categories. 'Big Band  
> Jazz' usually referred to the output of black bands,
> playing  
> speciality hot instrumentals for the recording
> studio microphones.  
> Their white counterparts, with very few exceptions,
> were identified as  
> 'hot dance' units." . . .
> 
> "Roughly expressed, a characteristic 'hot dance'
> performance went like  
> this: first an ensemble chorus (and often verse)
> setting out the  
> melody, played more or less straight, scored as well
> as an arranger  
> could manage. Then a vocal, lyric and melody clearly
> defined, usually  
> by a contract singer whose trademark was clarity. .
> . ."
> 
> "The rest of the record usually belonged to the
> band-as long as things  
> didn't get out of hand. . . "
> 
> It appears from this that Big Band Jazz was Black
> and Hot Dance was  
> White, but the music was the same. Could a Hot Dance
> Band, simply be a  
> White Jazz Band?
> 
> 2) What kind of music did Oliver's Band play? Once
> again, source "Lost  
> Chords":
> 
> Isham Jones told his band to see Oliver. (circa
> 1922) "The whole Jones  
> band would go over there to listen", Jim Breyerly,
> longtime Jones  
> manager, told James T. Maher, "because the old man
> (Jones) believed  
> that Joe Oliver had one of the best dance orchestras
> in Chicago."
> 
> So you can call Oliver's musical output what ever
> the hell you like,  
> but his Isham Jones called it dance music.
> 
> 3) Does Hot Dance have to have solos? Or large Bands
> as you  
> categorically misstate?
> 
> Apparently not. See the 1928 Warner Brothers
> Vitaphone "Hot Dance  
> Band" at:
> 
>   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHYHAh88MbY
> 
> Small Band, no solos yet described as Hot Dance.
> 
> 4) Hot Dance Band Size: Check out the Devil Mountain
> Jazz Band website  
> for a description of what their 8 piece jazz band
> plays. To save you  
> the trouble of looking it up, it says;" The eight
> piece concert/ 
> festival band is best known for the two trumpet
> sounds of the Joe  
> Oliver and Lu Watters bands and the orchestrated
> "hot dance" music of  
> the late twenties."
> 
> I guess, since they are a small band, you should put
> them down for  
> that statement?
> 
> And I note that while you have trouble calling
> Fletcher Henderson's  
> pre Louis Armstrong band a jazz band, Sudhalter and
> a whole bunch of  
> other literati and fans call it exactly that. Put
> them all down, me  
> included.
> 
> My conclusions are these. (1) You can't successfully
> discuss the  
> merits of your case, so you violently and childishly
> seek to denigrate  
> those who disagree with you. I thought you were man
> enough to overcome  
> that but I guess I was wrong. and (2) terms like
> "Hot dance" certainly  
> becomes meaningless as people define the term
> differently. And  
> obviously as above, no one seems to have come up
> with a cogent  
> definition of the term. Not you, not Tex, not
> Sudhalter, Not Brittany  
> Spears, Not the local stripper etc., etc., ad
> nauseum.
> 
> That you didn't get a laugh out of the Spears and
> Electra videos of  
> hot dancing doesn't surprise me. You just got too
> old, too quick.
> 
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
> 
> 
> 
> 
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