[Dixielandjazz] A message for Chris Tyle

Stephen G Barbone barbonestreet at earthlink.net
Sat Jul 5 21:42:12 PDT 2008

My oh my Chris, you are a frustrated old man aren't you?

When you can't discuss facts and logically support your wrong headed  
opinions, you get personal.  What's new? That is how all small men in  
this world act. Here is a recap and rebuttal of your diatribe.

You stated that Hot Dance was coined to describe is big band (over 10  
piece) music, with hot solos. And was not Dixieland.  That conclusion  
is simply not factual and you supplied no sources other than your own  
unverifiable "research".

  I supply another person's opinion and you immediately put HIM down  
rather than discussing that opinion. That speaks volumes about who you  

Now here are some facts and opinions by others. See if you can put  
these sources down.

1)  What is Hot Dance? Here's what Dick Sudhalter said in Lost Chords  
about it:

"early jazz writers - as writers will - invented categories. 'Big Band  
Jazz' usually referred to the output of black bands, playing  
speciality hot instrumentals for the recording studio microphones.  
Their white counterparts, with very few exceptions, were identified as  
'hot dance' units." . . .

"Roughly expressed, a characteristic 'hot dance' performance went like  
this: first an ensemble chorus (and often verse) setting out the  
melody, played more or less straight, scored as well as an arranger  
could manage. Then a vocal, lyric and melody clearly defined, usually  
by a contract singer whose trademark was clarity. . . ."

"The rest of the record usually belonged to the band-as long as things  
didn't get out of hand. . . "

It appears from this that Big Band Jazz was Black and Hot Dance was  
White, but the music was the same. Could a Hot Dance Band, simply be a  
White Jazz Band?

2) What kind of music did Oliver's Band play? Once again, source "Lost  

Isham Jones told his band to see Oliver. (circa 1922) "The whole Jones  
band would go over there to listen", Jim Breyerly, longtime Jones  
manager, told James T. Maher, "because the old man (Jones) believed  
that Joe Oliver had one of the best dance orchestras in Chicago."

So you can call Oliver's musical output what ever the hell you like,  
but his Isham Jones called it dance music.

3) Does Hot Dance have to have solos? Or large Bands as you  
categorically misstate?

Apparently not. See the 1928 Warner Brothers Vitaphone "Hot Dance  
Band" at:


Small Band, no solos yet described as Hot Dance.

4) Hot Dance Band Size: Check out the Devil Mountain Jazz Band website  
for a description of what their 8 piece jazz band plays. To save you  
the trouble of looking it up, it says;" The eight piece concert/ 
festival band is best known for the two trumpet sounds of the Joe  
Oliver and Lu Watters bands and the orchestrated "hot dance" music of  
the late twenties."

I guess, since they are a small band, you should put them down for  
that statement?

And I note that while you have trouble calling Fletcher Henderson's  
pre Louis Armstrong band a jazz band, Sudhalter and a whole bunch of  
other literati and fans call it exactly that. Put them all down, me  

My conclusions are these. (1) You can't successfully discuss the  
merits of your case, so you violently and childishly seek to denigrate  
those who disagree with you. I thought you were man enough to overcome  
that but I guess I was wrong. and (2) terms like "Hot dance" certainly  
becomes meaningless as people define the term differently. And  
obviously as above, no one seems to have come up with a cogent  
definition of the term. Not you, not Tex, not Sudhalter, Not Brittany  
Spears, Not the local stripper etc., etc., ad nauseum.

That you didn't get a laugh out of the Spears and Electra videos of  
hot dancing doesn't surprise me. You just got too old, too quick.

Steve Barbone

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