[Dixielandjazz] List Policemen etc.

Thu Jan 3 06:30:45 PST 2008

Like Hal, I am not a musician (to my eternal regret) but am a passionate
listener not only of OKOM but also classical music. When we lived in
pre-Katrina New Orleans, ALL my close friends were Jazz musicians and I
learned a bundle about the music from them. The same applies to DJML from
which I have learned additional, fascinating aspects of the music and you
folks that make it.

Other than Chris Tyle, I have never met Steve Barbone or any other member of
the list. I have been horrified by the vicious comments aimed at Steve and
other fellows who have given their opinions or advice, all of which I am
certain have been offered without prejudice and with the best of intentions.
Other than being a prodigious subscriber to the list, I get a clear picture
that Steve's Barbone Street Band has a full book of reservations throughout
the year - but when you read the bleatings of so many members who complain
of little work, diminishing audiences et al, how has Steve achieved this
success? I'll tell you why - no salesman made a sale sitting on his backside
at home, moaning and groaning and gnashing his teeth because no sales are
forthcoming. Steve is a hustler (in the nicest sense of the word) and its
the result of selling himself and his band that brings in the business. My
interpretation of his advice about "do's" and "don'ts" is that by passing on
his experiences, he hopes some of the moaners and groaners will find
something useful in some of his ideas and become more successful. Ditto his
musical opinions, right or wrong. I was in insurance sales most of my
working life and not once can I remember getting this kind of advice from my
fellow competitors - if it had been offered, I would have been deeply
suspicious!

DJML is a unique grouping of like minded people, in a kind of brotherhood of
lovers of OKOM. Let us keep it that way and if you feel like writing
something nasty about one of us, have a couple of beers, put on some King
Oliver and wait till the feeling goes away.

Here endeth the First Lesson

Happy New Year y'all

Clive Smith in New York

On Jan 2, 2008 11:08 PM, Charles Kercher <ekercher at tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> Hey Hal,
>
>    Enjoyed your message. There are a lot more fine musicians than there
> are
> fine listeners and fewer yet of those that improvise intelligent messages
> such as yours that promote the feeling of a brotherhood of both the
> listener
> and the player. Also I agree that Bob does a fine job of moderating the
> list. He also plays a mess of good piano, nicht wahr?      All the best,
> chuck kercher
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hal Vickery" <hvickery at svs.com>
> To: <ekercher at tampabay.rr.com>
> Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] List Policemen etc.
>
>
> > Larry,
> >
> > Your response to my post and this one are much appreciated.  I never
> have
> > figured out why anyone would be upset with any category of posts except
> > for
> > those that are wildly off topic.
> >
> > Take my perspective, for instance.  I'm a fan.  My only contributions to
> > this list can be from that perspective.  I never have made a dime
> playing
> > music.  I never did learn to improvise well, and once I needed bifocals,
> I
> > never could focus on the spots.  So an incredibly bad amateur player
> > became
> > strictly a listener.
> >
> > My interest here is mainly in the discussions of the music and
> musicians.
> > Sitting here in Joliet, IL, I'm not all that interested, though, in who
> is
> > playing in what festival in San Diego because I can't afford to go
> there.
> > I'm really am interested, though, in posts like those by you, Steve, and
> > Tom
> > that involve how to spread the music to a new generation.
> >
> > Let's put it this way, folks.  I'm 57 years old, and when I go to venues
> > where OKOM is played, I'm usually the youngest person in the audience,
> > except when I'm with my 28-year-old son.
> >
> > My musical tastes go way beyond OKOM, and his go way beyond mine, but he
> > fell in love with OKOM as a result of my taking him to a performance of
> > the
> > Jim Cullum Jazz Band in Madison, WI (for which I'm eternally grateful to
> > Don
> > Mopsick).
> >
> > The key was my getting him to hear the music when the time was right for
> > him
> > to hear it.  And that's what guys like Steve are trying to point out.  I
> > don't get this move to silence him at all.  It takes me about one second
> > to
> > delete a post on guitar frets.  It shouldn't take anyone here any longer
> > to
> > delete this or any other post if you're not interested in this topic.
> >
> > One last thought:  I act as a moderator on a web site.  We have people
> > there
> > who also try to tell people what and what not to post.  We have a
> standard
> > phrase that we use to stop that:  "Let the moderators do the
> moderating."
> > I
> > think Bob does a terrific job moderating this list (despite the fact
> that
> > I
> > still can't hear Joe Venuti saying anything other than "Barnacle Bill
> the
> > Sailor").  Please let him do that without trying to tell him how.
> >
> > Hal Vickery
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
> > [mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> Walton
> > Entertainment - St. Louis
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:38 PM
> > To: Hal Vickery
> > Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] List Policemen etc.
> >
> > Ross said > ...............You don`t have to read them !!!!
> >> I for one thank Steve and Tom Wiggins and others on the list that spend
> a
> >> lot of their time
> >> "Helping" other Members.
> > ______________________________
> >
> > I would like to second and expand on that.
> >
> > Not every idea is practical for everyone and some ideas seem just like
> pie
> > in the sky.  Not every formula that one person has worked out will work
> > for
> > someone else and not everyone is interested in changing what they are
> > doing
> > very much.
> >
> > But! While everything won't work for everyone usually some variation of
> an
> > idea will if you have the flexibility to change what you are doing and
> try
> > something else.
> >
> > I have talked about " Plan B" a lot of times.  Do you have one?  I'm
> just
> > asking that rhetorically.  Should yours be the same as mine?  Maybe yes
> > and
> > maybe no.  The important thing isn't so much my solution but that you
> have
> > one for you.
> >
> > I think about and reject dozens of ideas sometimes before I come up with
> a
> > plan.  No one's ideas are bad and sometimes I work out a plan for me
> based
> > on several ideas.  A lot of those rejected ideas are mine.  I will also
> > dump
> >
> > a plan the second it quits working for me.
> >
> > I'm gonna tell you right now this is the only place where one band
> leader
> > will try to help another.  No one in his right mind would sit and feed
> > ideas
> >
> > to a rival, competiting band leader.  But it happens here because many
> of
> > us
> >
> > recognize the value of trading ideas in a non competitive atmosphere.
> >
> > Ask yourself when the last time another band leader who had a band like
> > yours sat down and told you all his secrets, traded charts with you,
> told
> > you where to find stuff,  instantly gave you the background on pieces
> you
> > were doing and sometimes pass on gigs.  I'll tell you right now NOWHERE!
> >
> > This is a forum that just doesn't happen anywhere else.  I would have
> > given
> > a lot if someone had given me this kind of food for thought years ago.
> > Everything I know I learned at great cost not only monetarily but
> > personally.  A list like this would have made me even more successful
> and
> > saved me a bunch of bucks too.
> >
> > By some standards I'm not setting the world on fire but for this town
> and
> > at
> >
> > this time I'm doing OK I think and hope to do better in the future.
>  Some
> > of
> >
> > that I owe to this list.
> >
> > I suggest that some of you get over this contest that you seem to be
> > having
> > with Steve and others.  Simply because another man has a bigger house or
> > car
> >
> > does not make me or you unsuccessful or somehow inferior unless we let
> it.
> >
> > If I tell you that I worked 12 gigs in December that could be bragging
> but
> > if I tell you how I got those 12 gigs then I am helping you.  If you
> > played
> > 20 and I aspire to have 20 and you are willing to give me a tip on how
> to
> > get them or somehow inspire me, don't you think I should thank you?
> >
> > Blindness isn't only a condition of the eyes but of the mind.
> >
> > For those who wish to suppress what Steve, Tom or others has to say
> > prevents
> >
> > me from picking out those things that may work for me.  It may also
> cause
> > me
> >
> > to not pass on something to the list that may help others in their quest
> > for
> >
> > more OKOM venues or outlets.  An example is the business cards I am
> > carrying
> >
> > right now were obtained free from a source that Tom sent me.  I wouldn't
> > have known about it if Tom hadn't told me.
> >
> > Some of you enjoy talking about some great player of the past.  How many
> > times has Louis Armstrong been the topic.  Other than Louis was a jazz
> > great
> >
> > he has never made me a dime or got me a gig nor will he make you one
> > either.
> >
> > Simply because I'm not all that interested in the endless posts about
> > Louis
> > doesn't mean that you aren't.  It would be very rude of me to harp on
> the
> > number of posts that Louis (or others) generates and threaten to drop
> out
> > of
> >
> > the list or try to generate or collect posts that supports my side.
> >
> > A lot of that is happening here.  I quit choosing up teams years ago and
> I
> > suggest everyone think about what you are doing.  This list is, I think,
> a
> > valuable resource to everyone.  If you don't think it's valuable then
> > dropping off would be a reasonable thing but don't use Steve, Tom or me
> as
> > an excuse.
> > Larry
> > St. Louis
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
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