[Dixielandjazz] Musical non-readers, can you add to the list?

Fri Feb 29 01:26:09 PST 2008

 My experience with mixing readers and non  readers is that the non readers 
many times play the tune differently than what the readers
> see on the paper.
______________________________________________

That's true and especially if you are playing what I call precision jazz, 
that is you have everything written out and everything has to fit or it just 
doesn't work right.  Big band is like this.  I have a bunch of Dixie 
arrangements that have to be read.  I think that there definitely is a place 
for that but in Dixieland but I prefer the players to play off of each other 
more naturally.  My favorite arrangements do both.  There are reading spots 
then there are those areas that are much more free wheeling.  My only 
comment is that readers often hug the spots so tight that there is just 
something missing.

I work occasionally for a guy that is in 7th heaven reading charts and seems 
to ignore that a lot of the time some of the guys he hires sound like they 
are fresh out of a H.S. band.  Then he wonders why they don't sound like I 
do.  It's because there is a whole lot more to music than the spots. 
Because he's sort of compulsive about it he doesn't really understand 
completely about improvisation.  Intellectually he knows but it's not inside 
him.  You can hear it in his solos and sound.  They are usually OK and 
musically correct but never good.  The only thing that saves him is that he 
usually surrounds himself with some pretty good musicians and vocalists.

On the other hand you need to know when you are working in ensemble and not 
on your own where you have to blend and match the other instruments and 
where accuracy counts.  That skill also escapes a lot of guys who have let 
their reading skills go soft.

In a perfect world people could do both but it just doesn't seem to work 
that way.  I have observed that really good readers tend to not improv well 
and vice versa but I too know guys that do both blazingly well so it's not a 
hard fast thing.  Personally I have a lot of classical training including 
college and have played with many reading bands and orchestras from casual 
to symphony level but I still think I fall to the improv side unless I 
really work at it, my reading skills just go into the toilet.   Jazz and 
improv is where I like to be.

I just got a new trombone player.  He's really struggling with the spots. 
He's terrific at improv though.  Frankly I don't care if he never looks at 
the music.
Larry
StL

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Russ Guarino" <russguarino at comcast.net>
To: "Larry Walton" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
Cc: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>; <russg at redshift.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Musical non-readers, can you add to the list?

> One more thing....
>
> My experiene with mixing readers and non  readers is that the non readers 
> many times play the tune differently than what the readers
> see on the paper.  Leads to confusion on stage.
>
> I like to have everybody have a lead sheet in front of them so that, even 
> if not needed note by note, the player still can see the road
> map.
>
> Russ Guarino
>
> BillSargentDrums at aol.com wrote:
>
>> <<There is another side of this too Bill.  That's the  audience.  So far 
>> I
>> have
>> rebuffed the idea of playing for the local  jazz club because they are 
>> not
>> nice to bands that read.  I have found  that it's safest to have charts 
>> but
>> then the problem becomes the older  jazzers just don't want to (or 
>> can't )
>> read.  These are the guys that  will tear your socks off while others 
>> just
>> play notes.
>>
>> So far the  transition to charts hasn't totally taken place but like I 
>> said
>> before I  think that my age group is on the border line and when we go 
>> there
>> will be  very few players who can improv and know lots of tunes.  I think 
>> the
>>
>> border line and transition point is the baby boomers and I came along 
>> just
>> before then.
>> Larry
>> StL>>
>>
>> I've been very fortunate. I've found guys who play fantastic jazz, and 
>> the
>> tune and structure well, if they've got a lead sheet. And I do mean play 
>> GREAT,
>>  frankly better than most you'll hear at the festivals.
>>
>> Many times I have bands where it's mixed . . . maybe only one or two 
>> using  a
>> lead sheet and the others without the need for it.
>>
>> You gotta do what you gotta do.
>>
>> My bands have to play with fire and spunk and vitality . . . real 
>> enthusiasm
>> and, well, youthful energy.
>>
>> If the only guys who I can find to play without charts are guys who 
>> really
>> can't play anymore, well, I'll take the lead sheets every time.
>>
>> In my town, almost, not all, but almost every guy who knows the tunes 
>> plays
>> like "The Ol' Grey Mare Just Ain't What He Used To Be"
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill
>> 414-777-0100
>> BillSargentBands.com
>>
>> Just released:  "The Best Of Bill Sargent Bands - Volume 1"
>>
>> Available at:  http://billsargentbands.com/recordings.htm
>>
>> **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
>> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
>> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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>
>
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