[Dixielandjazz] credibility?

Thu Feb 14 10:05:36 PST 2008

could give the listeners (in this case, others on DJML) the impression that
> the speaker is somewhat larger in life
_______________________________________________________________

It is true what you say but I think there should be a difference between 
what we say to the general public and what we say to each other.

If I am talking to another musician it is IMO in poor taste to start 
trotting out my resume.  I played under a conductor that invariably would go 
into who he played with at some point in the rehearsal.  Who the hell 
cares!!!  It's what you can do this minute that is more important to me than 
who you played with 30 years ago.  It's also really important for a musician 
to keep his mouth shut sometimes.  I was on a gig with mostly AF musicians 
and these guys are tops in their field.  A young bass player came on the job 
and started trotting out who he played with and how good he was.  You could 
just see the hair raising on these guys and the looks they were exchanging. 
BTW his resume was a whole lot better than his playing.

On the other hand your resume is worth dollars and cents when it comes to 
advertising and the general public.  Personally I use everything I have to 
sell myself.  While I may not have the same, or as good as, or as many as 
someone else I play what I do have to the hilt.  Does it work?  You bet it 
does.  It translates into making more money per gig and more gigs.  I can 
site exact instances.

So far as the time limit, one gig vs. longer engagements before you can name 
drop, is again, IMO not too important.  If the guy is good enough to sit in 
the Kenton Band then he's probably pretty good weather it's one night or for 
months.

Personally I don't count one niters or use them in my advertising but I do 
use names if I am called back to play with a band on more or less a regular 
basis.   A case in point.  I have played with The Russ David Band.  Russ is 
a local celebrity that died a couple of years ago.  I was not a regular on 
his band but was on the sub list and played occasionally including his 
memorial band.  I do not use his name in any advertising BUT if a customer 
or someone brings up his name I will tell them I have played with him if 
it's relevant.   I also don't use names that are 30 years out of date 
either.

I think even one niters count, maybe not as much as a founding father of a 
name band but it still counts.  For these reasons.  You had to be 
recommended by someone that thought you could handle it.  Your abilities 
came to the band leaders notice in some other way.  If you were asked back 
someone thought you did OK.

One niters IMO are not to infer in any way that you didn't make the cut 
although that could be the case.  There are dozens of very good reasons why 
someone would not play a second time.  Modern touring bands often fill out 
with local talent because unlike the old days band leaders just can't afford 
to carry 18 or 20 guys on the payroll.  I have played with a dozen or so of 
these groups but I personally don't count them or use them unless a band 
leader calls me and asks who I have played with.

I think some musicians get the two mixed up and get it backward.  They brag 
to the choir but think that it's immodest or don't know how to advertise 
their credentials to the public.  This is a failure to understand that music 
is a business and that advertising has an important place in it.  Some don't 
want to deal with that because they are non professional or hobbyists and 
that's OK.

If you are a professional or semi Pro and you are involved in advertising to 
sell yourself it's better to separate your advertising from what you say to 
other musicians if you can.  There's a simple reason and that is it does you 
no good and it may even hurt you.  If you are good and you have played with 
famous people, believe me when I say that word will get around without you 
saying anything.  Two good friends of mine played on the Kenton band. 
Neither of them ever said a word to me about it.  Their musicianship speaks 
for its self but their fame spreads before them like an invisible field from 
musician to musician.  They don't have to say a word.
Larry
St. Louis
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Kashishian" <jim at kashprod.com>
To: "Larry Walton" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:45 AM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] credibility?

> We see quite a lot of name dropping in posts on DJML, sort of along the
> lines of "I played with so & so", etc.  A casual sit in with some big name
> when one was a kid doesn't really constitute "working" with someone, and
> could give the listeners (in this case, others on DJML) the impression 
> that
> the speaker is somewhat larger in life than he/she really is.  Some people
> thrive on that.
>
> The most honest way to mention someone's name you have worked alongside of
> would be to say so, and if it was a one song sit in, say so, also. 
> Leaving
> that vital bit of information up in the air gives credibility where it may
> not be deserved!
>
> Jim
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