[Dixielandjazz] Perfect Tune To Learn Trad Soloing

Mon Apr 14 16:12:49 PDT 2008

I don't play a two bar snippet but a full chorus.  Let me say that I dislike 
quotes in general as being trite and cutesy.  I have listened to bands that 
threw them in all over the place and it was more distracting than anything 
else.  I find that very few musicians do it well or are that clever.

I suggest you consult the people who collect money for this and ask them 
about "quotes" and how long they can be.  I'm sure two bars wouldn't 
necessarily constitute an infringement but 8 almost certainly would.  What 
if it's 16 or 32 bars or isn't a snippet at all but a full fledged 100% 
quote?  I don't think the people that police this kind of thing care about 
how long it is although I'm sure there is a "reasonable" time or number of 
bars.  I would also assume that the content might dictate also and that it 
would have to be recognizable as a copyrighted work.

I haven't had the experience but a friend who has a CD out had a quote in a 
tune and paid royalties on it.  I have the CD but don't remember how long 
the quotes were.   I understand they ask for the length of time that 
something is played and charge accordingly for example the tunes in a 
medley.

There are a lot of things done that are just too small potatoes for someone 
to take to court.  This seems to be the case with a lot of the trad bands 
who's publishing efforts rarely go over the few hundred CD sales but I 
guarantee that if a major star published a recording with a substantial 
quote in it they would pay for it.

So far as small potatoes goes, the major publishing companies typically 
don't go after the small fry that publish a few fake books or CD's and 
especially in OKOM.  There just isn't any money in it.  I would be willing 
to bet that if the fake book guys were to sell 100K copies from major 
outlets that there would be a knock on the door.

One time My high school band played one of those tunes that had dozens of 
two to four bar "Quotes" in it all strung together.  I would just bet they 
had to pay on every one.

Maybe someone else knows the exact rules on it.
Larry
STL

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Edgerton" <paul.edgerton at gmail.com>
To: "Larry Walton" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Perfect Tune To Learn Trad Soloing

> With all due respect Larry, if that advice came from your attorney,
> you need better representation. IF a two-bar snippet of Yakkety Sax
> during an improvised solo constitutes infringement, we're all headed
> for the hoosegow.
>
> Really.
>
>
> -- Paul "Quotemeister" Edgerton
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Larry Walton Entertainment - St.
> Louis <larrys.bands at charter.net> wrote:
>> I thought I would throw this in for those who might not know.  Chord 
>> lines
>> alone cannot be copyrighted nor can titles of songs.  Only Melody lines,
>> words and their associated chords can be copyrighted.  That's not to say 
>> the
>> chords are copyrighted anymore than you can copyright a "C" scale. You 
>> can
>> publish or sell chord sheets even with the title and without the melody 
>> all
>> day long.  It's when you add words or melody to it you run into problems.
>>
>>  You might be playing a song out of copyright such as the Saints but the
>> instant you quote another melody it becomes that melody for the length of
>> time you are quoting.  For example I can play Yakety Sax during the 
>> Saints
>> (same chord line).  While I am playing Yakety it becomes Yakety Sax and 
>> no
>> longer is out of copyright.
>>
>>  They must have directly quoted the Teasing Rag on the RCA recording.
>>
>>  Reminds me of an engineer that worked where my dad worked.  The company
>> manufactured large transformers.  The engineer instituted new ways of
>> winding transformers.  Unfortunately the engineer had worked for
>> Westinghouse and "borrowed" some of their technology that was patented. 
>> It
>> was several years before Westinghouse found out and they weren't happy
>> campers.  The resulting lawsuit almost put the company out of business. 
>> It
>> took them years to pay off the suit and plus the added expense of 
>> licensing
>> the Westinghouse technology.
>>  Larry
>>  StL
>>  ----- Original Message ----- From: "PHIL WILKING"
>> <philwilking at bellsouth.net>
>>  To: "Larry Walton" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
>>  Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>>  Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:45 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Perfect Tune To Learn Trad Soloing
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Incidentally, that 3rd strain is really the 3rd strain of a rag titled
>> "That Teasing Rag." I have read that using it cost the Original Dixieland
>> Jazz Band their RCA contract because they did not tell RCA they were 
>> using
>> someone else's copyrighted music and RCA was hit with an infringement
>> lawsuit.
>> >
>> > Phil Wilking
>> >
>> > Those who would exchange freedom for
>> > security deserve neither freedom nor security.
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Murdick"
>> <kmurdick at jaguar1.usouthal.edu>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > I'd never thought of it before but the 3rd section (the one you 
>> > > probably
>> know) of  "The Original Dixieland One-
>> > > Step"  may be the perfect vehicle for learning trad soloing.   It's 
>> > > got
>> the two main elements of the style: the circle of 5ths in dominants and 
>> the
>> last 8 bars of "Bill Bailey"
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
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