[Dixielandjazz] Pancho Villa

[Don Ingle]

The names if some sidemen with the Seger Ellis band caught my attention. 
Trumperer Don Anderson and trombonist John Stanley were with Spike Jones 
at the time (1943) that my father, Red Ingle joined that band and made 
many of the recordings of that Blubird period.
King Jackson was also with Jones a bit earleir, but was a long time 
fixture with the Red Nichols Pennies in 'the 40's.
Most of these men were active in the 
studio/transcription/recording/radio and other gigging circles in L.A. 
at that time.
I have some photos of the Jones Band with dad and the mentioned players, 
plus Luther "Red" Roundtree and Joe "Country" Washburne among the 
regulars of the time period.
Nice to be reminded of these gentlemen - nice people all
and always willing to take time to answer dumb questions of a snot-faced 
kid with ambitions to be a player.
One gets a lot of extras from your posts, Bill, even if they were not 
meant to be linked to these other stories.
Don Ingle

Bill Haesler wrote:
> [The following long discographal discussion may bore some listmates, 
> so hit 'delete' now.]
>
> Dear Marek and Chris,
> The Pancho Villa/Irving Fazola discussion has been conjectural for 
> many years.
> And, to my knowledge, unresolved. However, the answer has to be out 
> there.
> It was therefore interesting to hear Chris say that "I was told by 
> cornetist Danny Alguire that clarinetist Pancho Villa was a
> real person who played in the LA area in the 1930s and 40s."
> Here then is my contribution, for what it is worth.
> The short-lived Seger Ellis Choirs of Brass Orchestra was unique in 
> that it used 7-8 brass with only one clarinet, two pianos, string bass 
> and drums.
> The Seger Ellis Alamac LP QSR 2408 (which I have had for many years) 
> states in the album personnel listing:
> "Irving Fazola OR [my emphasis] Pancho Villa". There is certainly only 
> one clarinetist heard throughout.
> On the Segar Ellis Decca sides (11 March 1937) there is only one 
> clarinet and it IS Fazola ('cause my ears tell me so!).
> Brian Rust, in the 1969 edition of his great 'Jazz Records' 
> discography probably set off the Fazola equals 'Pancho' Villa mystery 
> by stating in his personnel listing for this Decca session: Irving 
> Fazola (as "Pancho Villa" !). This has carried through to the current 
> 2002 edition.
> Albert McCarthy perpetuates the 'myth' in his excellent 1974 book 'Big 
> Band Jazz'. When discussing the clarinet solo on "Shivery Stomp" from 
> the Decca session he says, ".....a pleasant clarinet solo by Irving 
> Fazola - masquerading for some unknown reason under the pseudonym of 
> Pancho Villa - who had just left the Ben Pollack orchestra....."
> There is a pic of the band, but it doesn't include the clarinet 
> player. Rats!
> It was suggested somewhere, years ago, that this was because Fazola 
> was under contract elsewhere, but there is no discographal evidence 
> for this, as will be seen below.
> Respected author/researcher/bandleader John Chilton, in various 
> detailed biog references for Irving Fazola makes no mention of him 
> working or playing with the Los Angeles-based Seger Ellis Choirs of 
> Brass Orch. In fact, he doesn't mention Ellis at all in relation to 
> Irving Fazola.
> Retracing Fazola's movements for this period we find that he joined 
> the Ben Pollack orch in May-June 1936 on its way to Chicago, then went 
> with it to New York where his first records were made (with Pollack) 
> in Sept 1936. At this time he also recorded with The Rhythm Wreckers, 
> Billie Holiday and Sharkey Bonano
> The Pollack band (with Faz) then went 'home' to California, probably 
> in late 1936, for 12 months of residencies on the West Coast, starting 
> in early 1937 at the Cotton Club in Culver City.
> The Pollack band recorded in LA (some references give New York) on 18 
> Dec 1936 with Fazola.
> Fazola's next records were made with Seger Ellis on 11 March 1937.
> Which suggests that when Faz made the Seger Ellis Decca sides he was 
> probably still with Ben Pollack in LA.
> But Faz became homesick, handed in his notice to Pollack, returned to 
> New Orleans and joined Augie Schellang's Roosevelt Rhythm Kings. Dates 
> unknown to me. Maybe Pollack expert Mr Joe Showler knows.
> By May 1937 Fazola was back in New York with the Gus Arnheim orch and 
> recorded his next sides with it in June and July 1937. I've never 
> heard these.
> Glenn Miller had worked happily with Fazola in the 1936 Pollack band 
> and when he formed his first big band Miller invited Faz to join.
> One of the attractions for Faz was that he would join the band in New 
> Orleans toward the end of its long and popular run (17 June  - 26 Aug 
> 1937) at the Roosevelt Hotel. He was with the Miller band until it 
> disbanded on 2 January 1938. He then returned to New Orleans, worked 
> briefly there with Pollack, then (having knocked back offers in 1936 
> and 1937) finally  joined the Bob Crosby Orchestra in early (1st?) 
> March 1938.
> I've listened intently again to the Alamac LP and, although the 
> clarinetist has a Fazola/Matlock style, I certainly can't accept that 
> it is Fazola. It's just not good enough, even on a bad Faz day (if any).
> Could this be the elusive 'Pancho' Villa?
> My feeling is that Irving Fazola never worked with the Seger Ellis 
> Choirs of Brass, although he recorded with it for Decca.
> The Alamac LP, from an unknown source (radio transcription recorded at 
> the Decca studio?) was, based on the similar sound quality, was 
> probsbly made in March-April 1937 using a different clarinetist 
> identified somewhere as someone called Villa, with the obvious 
> nickname 'Pancho'.
> Given the Decca personnel: Seger Ellis (vcl/arr/dir) Nate Kazebier, 
> Don Anderson, Benny Strickler, Hank McCarthy (t) King Jackson, Al 
> Thompson, Bob Logan, John Stanley (tb) Irving Fazola (cl) Stan 
> Wrightsman, Al Mack (p) Jim Lynch (b) George Siegler (d) and "Spud" 
> Murphy (arr) perhaps we should be searching the 1930s list of West 
> Coast studio musicians.
> Or, based on Chris's Danny Alquire/Benny Strickler/Bob Wills 
> information, maybe we should take a look at the Country/Western Swing 
> discographies. What say DJMLer/CW expert Phil O'Rourke?
> Kind regards,
> Bill.
>
>
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