[Dixielandjazz] That's Jazz, except for Kenny G.

[Marek Boym]

Masochism cannot be forbidden.  IMO, listening to dentist drill is
much less painful than listening to Coltrane, whether or not somone
has played with Coleman Hawkins or Sidney Bechet.
And whatever it is, it certanly cannot be a subject for DIXIELAND Jazz
Mailing List; there's enough room for it elsewhere.
Cheers,
Marek

On 13/10/2007, Steve Barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Don Mopsick mophandl at landing.com
>
> >> Steve wrote:
>
> >> Yeah, I know, folks may not like the styles, but then, that's jazz."
>
> >Steve, you can grin all you want, but what's new is that very few people
> >today listen to either the silly early jazz or the so-called "avant-garde"
> >dentist drill-stuff, and for good reason--rational human beings are simply
> >not wired to physically tolerate random chaos. Trying to listen to someone
> >like Albert Ayler or late Coltrane, for examples, is like being locked in a
> >room and being forced to hear some else's psychotherapy. The person doing
> >the venting is getting a lot more out of it than the spectator. So, Steve,
> >Hear the Good News.
>
> There you go again Don, dissing Coltrane because you neither understand his
> music nor have the ears to appreciate it. There is nothing random about his
> music. Jealousy perhaps? More people listen to Coltrane today than you
> realize. For example, both Blue Train and A Love Supreme are Gold Records
> with sales over 500,000 copies each. The man has sold a lot more albums than
> you and your band ever will. Perhaps you should visit the Church of St. John
> Coltrane next time you are in San Francisco.
>
> As for early jazz, hey I was simply commenting on where today's art music
> came from. Those are the roots, and as you admit, factual.
>
>  >The vast majority of Americans in the early 20s preferred rhythmically
> >straight-up-and-down syrupy songs about Mother and Lost Love, waltzes,
> >operettas and military marches. Of course they didn't "get" jazz at first,
> >especially the "novelty" kind you refer to above, but the fact is that after
> >the NORK and the Hot 5 and 7 recordings, a truly "cutting edge" avant-garde
> >did soon form around them, the result being that a tiny group of Americans
> >very quickly developed a taste for the real stuff and led the way for the
> >rest.
>
> What rest? Where are all those "real stuff" listeners today?
>
> >This is not to say that bullshit ever goes out of fashion. It's not hard to
> >find, shall we say, critically-challenged people like you, Steve, who still
> >cling to the "received wisdom" that Albert Ayler, Pharaoh Sanders, Sun Ra
> >and Kenny G.?--hey, that's jazz, whether you like the "style" or not. <no
> >grin>
>
> Oh my, the "received wisdom" bullshit again? I guess all your jazz knowledge
> came from original thought? No, of course not, you got it through that same
> "received wisdom" which you carp about in others. For your information, I
> was working gigs with real jazzers like Coleman Hawkins, Roy Eldridge, Yank
> Lawson, Pee Wee Erwin, Sidney Bechet et al, and talking to real jazzers like
> Parker, Monk, Clifford Brown, George Lewis, Eddie Condon, Vic Dickenson,
> J.C. Higginbotham, Omer Simeon, Coltrane et al when you were still in knee
> pants thinking about becoming a big time jazz man.
>
> And I was knowledgeable enough to know that King Oliver didn't play the
> "Armstrong" intro to West End Blues as you previously stated. Anyone with
> any sense of music would realize that K.O. on his best day couldn't play it,
> and certainly not by the time his band recorded it. Perhaps you might follow
> you own advice and listen to some more of the "real stuff" before dissing
> others, and/or mistaking K.O.? Received wisdom or just good ears?
>
> I don't know why you mention Ayler, Sanders and Sun Ra as I never did. And
> Kenny G? Heck, he is the first to say that he "doesn't play jazz, but rather
> instrumental pop." That same kind of syrupy stuff that the vast majority of
> Americans listened to in the 20s. And they still do today so what's new?
>
> Please, before you sling mud about "critically challenged" people, sit back
> and realize that you describe yourself. Like Pogo, you have met the enemy
> and he is you. <no grin>
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>
>
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