[Dixielandjazz] Listening & Warning was John Coltrane, Giant Steps, & AJB

[Marek Boym]

Well,
You try to do the same, except that you believe that, unlike me,  you
have the right to do so.
Despite what you've said, many people hate "modern jazz" (please note
the quotes); I have met people who said the hated jazz, and then it
turned out that they liked OKOM, even though some had not known it
until they came over and gave it a try.  I was the radio programme
with the Coltranes and Mileses of this word that caused them to hate
jazz (I would, too, if that was all I ever heard).
And speaking of warnings, to me it seems simple: if I see a rock
falling, I warn people who are unaware of it.  I have done the same
here.  And it certainly IS relevant when writing to people on a
DIXIELAND Jazz Mailing List.  i would not have written that to
boppers.
Cheers

On 26/05/07, Steve Barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Yes, I think we must agree to disagree. My point is simple. What we like or
> do not like is fine. But whenever we seek to shape the views of others
> without affording them an opportunity to make up their own minds by
> examining the subject matter (music in this instance) on their own, we are
> exhibiting the ultimate conceit, and/or in effect trying to brainwash by
> assuming that what we think, everyone else should think .
>
> The Allen example is perfect. Some like him, some do not. But to find out,
> you have to listen to his playing, not to others talking about his playing.
> Same exactly for Coltrane. What list members believe about Coltrane is
> irrelevant. Any discussion of whether his playing is good or bad is
> irrelevant. The discussion is about telling others to what they should or
> should not listen. Having left a Communist Country where the Government
> tried to tell you what to think and believe, I'm sure you understand that
> better than most.
>
> And a point we may have missed is that there is connection from Coltrane to
> OKOM via AJB who took a very modern jazz Coltrane tune and made it work as
> OKOM. All it takes is a creative mind and some good musicians. Same is true
> in reverse where Branford Marsalis takes "Struttin With Some Barbecue" and
> makes it a modern jazz tune. We could argue all day long about whether you
> or I like either, but that is not the point.
>
> Please do not try and speak for me about what I personally seem to believe,
> or conceit, or anything else about what you think my personal make-up might
> be. I just try to make my point understood. Whether or not others agree
> really doesn't make me, or them, any less mortal.
>
> If you want to discuss warnings, then discuss warnings. But please take it
> off list so I do not have to respond publicly. We must be boring the list by
> now.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve
>
>
> on 5/25/07 5:42 PM, Marek Boym at marekboym at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > As usual, we disagree.
> > You'd be surprised how much my friend knew of OKOM, which she loved,
> > followed and collected (sure, her collection is much larger now).  She
> > just grew up after Hubbard was discussed and played on every "jazz"
> > programme.
> >
> > As regards Allen, the dispute was among OKOM lovers.  Some like a
> > certain performer, others don't, but all have a common frame of
> > reference.  I wonder how many on this list consider Coltrane within
> > their frame of reference (as can be iferred from the exchange of
> > letters, all on this list).  Thus, the comparison between OKOMer Allen
> > and "modernist" Coltrane is irrelevant (not that it is relevant, but I
> > have liked most Allen I've heard, which isn't too much - just the Bunk
> > Project and the film of his European tour).
> > And warning actually DOES "logically relate to the anecdote, even if
> > some people are too conceited to see it.  You seem to believe that
> > what you like or think is above all others, but would not afford us
> > mere mortals the same.
> >
> > And I have heard early Coltrane as well.  My comment "even if, in some
> > cases, it is tolerable (but not more)" referred to that period.  Of
> > course, he had a r&b period as well, and played with Earl Bostic.
> > And, while I do not doubt his technique, technique is important, but
> > is a tool, not the essence!
>
>