[Dixielandjazz] Listening & Warning was John Coltrane, Giant Steps, & AJB

[Steve Barbone]

Yes, I think we must agree to disagree. My point is simple. What we like or
do not like is fine. But whenever we seek to shape the views of others
without affording them an opportunity to make up their own minds by
examining the subject matter (music in this instance) on their own, we are
exhibiting the ultimate conceit, and/or in effect trying to brainwash by
assuming that what we think, everyone else should think .

The Allen example is perfect. Some like him, some do not. But to find out,
you have to listen to his playing, not to others talking about his playing.
Same exactly for Coltrane. What list members believe about Coltrane is
irrelevant. Any discussion of whether his playing is good or bad is
irrelevant. The discussion is about telling others to what they should or
should not listen. Having left a Communist Country where the Government
tried to tell you what to think and believe, I'm sure you understand that
better than most.

And a point we may have missed is that there is connection from Coltrane to
OKOM via AJB who took a very modern jazz Coltrane tune and made it work as
OKOM. All it takes is a creative mind and some good musicians. Same is true
in reverse where Branford Marsalis takes "Struttin With Some Barbecue" and
makes it a modern jazz tune. We could argue all day long about whether you
or I like either, but that is not the point.

Please do not try and speak for me about what I personally seem to believe,
or conceit, or anything else about what you think my personal make-up might
be. I just try to make my point understood. Whether or not others agree
really doesn't make me, or them, any less mortal.

If you want to discuss warnings, then discuss warnings. But please take it
off list so I do not have to respond publicly. We must be boring the list by
now.

Cheers,
Steve


on 5/25/07 5:42 PM, Marek Boym at marekboym at gmail.com wrote:

> As usual, we disagree.
> You'd be surprised how much my friend knew of OKOM, which she loved,
> followed and collected (sure, her collection is much larger now).  She
> just grew up after Hubbard was discussed and played on every "jazz"
> programme.
> 
> As regards Allen, the dispute was among OKOM lovers.  Some like a
> certain performer, others don't, but all have a common frame of
> reference.  I wonder how many on this list consider Coltrane within
> their frame of reference (as can be iferred from the exchange of
> letters, all on this list).  Thus, the comparison between OKOMer Allen
> and "modernist" Coltrane is irrelevant (not that it is relevant, but I
> have liked most Allen I've heard, which isn't too much - just the Bunk
> Project and the film of his European tour).
> And warning actually DOES "logically relate to the anecdote, even if
> some people are too conceited to see it.  You seem to believe that
> what you like or think is above all others, but would not afford us
> mere mortals the same.
> 
> And I have heard early Coltrane as well.  My comment "even if, in some
> cases, it is tolerable (but not more)" referred to that period.  Of
> course, he had a r&b period as well, and played with Earl Bostic.
> And, while I do not doubt his technique, technique is important, but
> is a tool, not the essence!