[Dixielandjazz] Fwd: Jazz in Schools from a Jazz Professor's viewpoint.

[tcashwigg at aol.com]

Subject: Jazz in Schools from a Jazz Professor's viewpoint.

     Hi Folks:

  Here is an interview  from a congressional Jazz Conference, I believe 
at the IAJE convention, with one of Saint Gabriel’s Celestial Brass 
Bands Trumpet players,  and Our # 1 Trombone player is Charles Hamilton 
who is head of the Berkeley High School Music Department, and has 
turned out many a fine musician.   David Hardiman Sr.  retired this 
past year and his Son David Jr. took over his position at City College. 
  Needless to say Both Davids and Charles are very active in our Jazz 
for kids program, as are three of our sax players who also hold 
teaching credentials.    So when reading it if you get all the way thru 
it  please not that they say we need to get this music introduced to 
the kids at an early age if they are gong to embrace it at all.


 Thought some of you might enjoy reading this interview and discussion.

 Cheers,

 Tom Wiggins
 Saint Gabriel’s Celestial Brass Band


 TESTIMONY OF DAVID HARDIMAN
 Jazz Instructor, City College of San Francisco

 HARDIMAN:
  I'm David Hardiman, Director of Jazz Studies at City College of San 
Francisco where I've taught since 1974. I am also a former president of 
the Bay Area Jazz Society.

  I have a big band--the San Francisco Allstar Big Band--and I also have 
my own small band. So I'm a performing artist as well as a full-time 
teacher who has taught music at the elementary through the college 
levels for well over 30 years.

  I've watched the growth and development of jazz from the point of view 
of a young person who started playing the trumpet at 8 years old. While 
I had opportunities to study music, jazz was not taught at that time. I 
wasn't exposed to jazz until I reached high school in Indianapolis, 
Indiana which generally has a superior music program than what I found 
in California when I first arrived in 1971. California is lacking in 
music education in general, not just jazz.

  Our weak economy has been the major cause for cutbacks in the arts. Of 
course, the arts are generally the first to go, especially instrumental 
music. This has affected jazz the most.

  We are also dealing with a social condition as well as an economic 
one. For example, the first thing I ask my students is "what is jazz?". 
Many of them think of it as old people's music or black people's music.
 MURRAY:
 That's what my children say.
 HARDIMAN:
  Yes. If you ask one hundred people of different ages and ethnic 
backgrounds from different cross sections of the country that same 
question, they would give you a lot of definitions of jazz--dixieland 
or swing or bebop or funky or avant garde, etc. That's part of the 
problem. Jazz is confused in the minds of the general public. They 
don't know what it is.

  When jazz was most popular, particularly during the swing era, it was 
like a participating sport. People could dance, they could enjoy the 
music. That's why people today like rhythm and blues and rock music, 
and unfortunately, it is also the reason people think jazz is too 
intellectual and foreign.

  In the Berkeley school system, for example, where I taught in 1971, 
elementary school children were taught to improvise and play jazz. This 
jazz education continued in junior high and high school. Today, 
Berkeley students participate in the Monterey Jazz Festival and are 
winning special honors there as well as Reno and other places. Everyone 
is amazed. I recently judged a high school music competition at Sonoma 
State, and the Berkeley High School bands were generally far superior 
to the others. This can be attributed to their background, education, 
interest, and also community support.
 MURRAY:
  Do you think we're doing all we can do or enough in terms of jazz 
education at the postsecondary level?
 HARDIMAN:
 Definitely not.
 MURRAY:
 What could we be doing that we are not already doing?
 HARDIMAN:
  The Legislature could ensure that there are music programs at all 
levels of education and that jazz is taught as part of the 
early-elementary curriculum as well as available in the colleges.

  One problem is that children are not exposed to jazz early enough. 
Early education is crucial. Whatever happens to the students musically 
before they reach college determines their success. If they have 
progressed to the college level, they will enhance those abilities in 
college and should be ready to move into the so-called professional 
jazz world after graduation.

  Jazz courses at the college or university level have only been offered 
within the last 10 to 20 years at most. When I attended Indiana 
University, which was between 1955 and 1959, there were no jazz classes 
at all. Shortly after I graduated, maybe about 4 or 5 years later, 
Jerry Coker, Buddy Baker, and now David Baker (present Director of Jazz 
Studies at Indiana University) were brought in to teach jazz. That 
university now has one of the top jazz programs in the country, and as 
a forerunner, it inspired other universities and colleges to set up 
jazz programs. Today, at least one jazz class, perhaps more, is offered 
at different colleges and universities.

  Another problem is at the curriculum level. Today's music instructors 
are not required to study jazz, unless they choose to take it as an 
elective. When these teachers try to teach jazz they are very limited 
and have no real background or interest.
 MURRAY:
  Was it ever the case that California music instructors had jazz 
backgrounds?
 HARDIMAN:
 Definitely not.
 MURRAY:
 So that aspect has not changed?
 HARDIMAN:
  No. It has not changed; I think it's improving, but it has a long way 
to go.
 MURRAY:
 But there are some examples of outstanding programs, are there not?
 HARDIMAN:
 Of course.
 MURRAY:
  California State, Fullerton, for example, certainly has an outstanding 
band. I've heard them on ...
 HARDIMAN:
  In Southern California, musicians are being developed on a very high 
level so that they can go out and perform professionally. In Los 
Angeles, a limited number of former students get opportunities to play 
in recording studios, for movies, and for commercial music productions.

  But what happens to the rest of those students once they matriculate 
and graduate? A lot of them are lost, they find no jobs, they find no 
opportunities to continue performing.

  When you think of it we're graduating thousands of young musicians 
every year and they have no where to go. This is our new generation. 
Each year it continues.

  Another problem is attitudes at the university level--as well as our 
society--as to what is to be considered classical music. Hardly anyone 
in the United States would consider Duke Ellington on the same level as 
Beethoven. Yet and still we know that Ellington is one of the greatest 
composers of the 20th century and also one of the greatest composers of 
jazz, composing well over 2,000 songs. So we are dealing with attitudes 
about this music which has to do with racial attitudes and racism--from 
slavery days to present time. Jazz was invented during slavery times 
with spirituals, blues, work songs, field hollers and cries. All of 
that happened...
 MURRAY:
  Do you think that attitude would also apply to Benny Goodman and Tommy 
Dorsey ...
 HARDIMAN:
 Definitely. Benny Goodman is jewish ...
 MURRAY:
 ... As white musicians playing black music?
 HARDIMAN:
  Right, and if it hadn't been for Benny Goodman, there may not have 
been much integration. He hired Lionel Hampton, Teddy Wilson, and 
Billie Holiday. He was one of the few to break the ice and integrate.

  If you look at the jazz groups today as well as commercial groups, you 
still find all white bands and all black bands. There are hardly any 
latinos or asians involved. Minorities, generally speaking, are being 
pushed down and pushed aside and are not able to preserve their 
heritage because they lack economic power and because of racial 
attitudes.
 MURRAY:
  How do we account for the lack of interest in jazz among blacks, 
especially among younger blacks?
 HARDIMAN:
  When commercial stations keep pushing Michael Jackson at you and you 
see him being elevated like a saint or someone who is superpowered ...
 MURRAY:
  Well, when you make $35 million a year, you are a superpower... 
(LAUGHTER)
 HARDIMAN:
  But we also have many superstars of jazz. A lot of them are dead now, 
but there are new ones and some of them are making it, like Wynton 
Marsalis. Marsalis is making it because they opened the doors and let 
him in on the classical side, but he amazed people by doing both 
classical and jazz.
 MURRAY:
  Classical music is not that commercially viable, at least that's my 
understanding.
 HARDIMAN:
 You're right. Classical music is in trouble too.
 MURRAY:
 I don't think there was ever a time it supported itself. Was there?
 HARDIMAN:
 More or less.
 MURRAY:
  It appears that jazz is rejected by white people because it's black, 
and I assume it's not rejected by black people because it is black. 
However, I have attended jazz presentations for 45 years or so. Back 
then a sizable portion of the audience was black, but I have seen 
that-continually go down to where we are today--to about less than 10 
percent of jazz audiences. Why is that?
 HARDIMAN:
  Someone mentioned earlier that more than 90 percent of the jazz 
audience is white. Generally speaking, as a race from slavery all the 
way up to the present time, black people's folk music has been 
blues--which eventually evolved into rhythm and blues, which eventually 
evolved into rock and roll.

  It comes back to where people's heads are at today--trendy. Rap music 
has really perpetuated the black community and the latino community 
because it's the "in" thing. You're considered somewhat square or 
different if you are not with the group ...
 MURRAY:
  So the difference occurs because jazz was not in competition with 
other forms of music as it is today?
 HARDIMAN:
  Exactly. You had R and B kind of parallel with blues, but jazz was 
considered a higher art form, more intellectual.
 MURRAY:
 R and B never had any real big stars like Michael Jackson...
 HARDIMAN:
  If you consider James Brown and all those people who came before him. 
I'm thinking about Big Mama Thornton and some others who brought in the 
movement that Elvis Presley made popular.

  American rock and R and B music has gone to England and come back to 
America in the form of the Beetles and some other groups. African music 
came to America where it was fused with European music, then returned 
to Africa in its new form of jazz and was later brought back to America 
where it was changed again. Japanese are accepting the music; they love 
it, they think it's great. So are the Europeans; they have always 
appreciated our music and also appreciate the people, predominantly 
black people, who present it. Why do you think state departments of 
various countries used jazz musicians such as Dizzy (Gillespie) when 
they were failing with politics? They are adored all over the world and 
heralded as great stars--ambassadors of music.

 Benny Goodman was one of the few allowed behind the Iron Curtain ...
 MURRAY:
 I remember Louis Armstrong went to Russia about 40 years ago ...
 HARDIMAN:
 In the 1930s, right. His first trip was in the 1930s.
 MINICCUCI:
  I have a few questions. Senator Alan Sieroty, who was the original 
Chair of the Joint Committee on the Arts (now chaired by Senator Henry 
Mello), is now retired but serves on the board at KLON radio. In fact 
that's how we got Buddy Collette up here. In talking to Alan this week, 
he asked me to bring up an issue and this seems to be the appropriate 
time.

  Grover Sales, a professor at San Francisco State, indicated to him 
that university jazz history classes are being pushed out of the 
regular curriculum. They are offered, if offered at all, as extension 
courses or as half-unit credit classes. When I attended the University 
of California, Los Angeles, there were several jazz history classes 
that were available to undergraduates. Apparently, there are not as 
many offered today. Do you think that's true? And if it is true, is 
that prevalent throughout the California State University (CSU) as well 
as the University of California (UC) systems?
 HARDIMAN:
  I would say it varies and differs geographically. For example, UC 
Berkeley has a strong jazz program, but it is not part of the regular 
music curriculum, and to my knowledge, the students don't receive units 
for those classes. Despite this, they take those jazz courses even 
though they are taught in inferior facilities--the Student Union area. 
Classical music courses, on the other hand, are held on the other part 
of campus in the better facilities.

  At San Francisco State where Grover Sales teaches, there are negative 
attitudes about musicians who want to study jazz or rock and not 
classical music. So there are a lot of negative attitudes.

  Another example is when I started teaching at City College. There was 
a pep band and a jazz band and maybe one jazz history class when I 
first got there, but the instructor who taught them died. I ended up 
inheriting two jazz history classes. I now teach two jazz bands, a 
jazz/rock improvisation workshop, and an arranging/composing class. 
Today, its unique to find a so-called fulltime "jazz educator" on the 
staff of any music department. There are more than there used to be, 
but it's still very limited and they are hard to find.
 MINICCUCI:
  If it's true that jazz is not getting its equal share at four-year 
colleges, at least in the UC and CSU systems where there are public 
dollars, I would like to ascertain that fact through a survey by the 
joint committee on the arts. I wonder if you will help me structure 
questions and identify persons who should receive the survey. I think 
it's my boss' sense that public university systems, at the very least, 
ought to be treating jazz with the same kind of respect that it treats 
other musical forms, particularly in the classroom. It's outrageous 
that there is a difference in status.
 HARDIMAN:
  There's definitely a difference. The International Association of Jazz 
Educators is a growing organization that is trying to perpetuate jazz 
at all levels. It's similar to the MENC (Music Educators National 
Conference) and CMEA (California Music Educators Association), but 
these groups are very limited and are basically involved in classical 
music. At the MENC conference in San Diego, there was hardly any 
discussion of jazz. However, within those organizations, a lot can be 
done at the state and national levels.
 CARRILLO:
  How many chairs of jazz studies are there in this state? You have an 
unusual title ...
 HARDIMAN:
  Actually it's a name I have given myself. I don't think I have an 
official title as Chairman of Jazz Studies, but being that I teach six 
jazz classes, I'm basically the only jazzman there.
 CARRILLO:
  What's going on in the colleges? How many people are involved in jazz 
education?
 HARDIMAN:
  I can't quote you exact numbers, but an article that appeared in this 
fall's Fazz Educators Journal about incorporating jazz into curriculum 
makes the point that a jazz program increases the number of students 
coming into music programs. Where there are no jazz programs, students 
will go where there are jazz programs. So percentage-wise, I would say 
approximately half of the students have an interest in jazz and/or rock.
 KIRK:
  Excuse me for interrupting. I want to say that before Proposition 13, 
there was a lot more money for music programs. The passage of 
Proposition 13 really hurt the school's ability to enhance music 
programs.
 MURRAY:
 Can you get a master's degree in jazz? I thought I read somewhere ...
 HARDIMAN:
  It's possible, but they are very limited in the State of California. 
San Jose state, I believe, is one of the few. In fact, there are only a 
few colleges and universities that allow jazz degrees of any kind, 
whether it be a bachelor's or master's.
 MURRAY:
  Suppose the state offered a scholarship for a master's degree in jazz 
with a provision that the recipient of the scholarship teach for some 
period of time. We do this in other areas, for example, mathematics, 
science, education...
 HARDIMAN:
 I think that would be an excellent idea.

  I mentioned earlier that the state should mandate some type of 
provisions toward ensuring that there is not only jazz but music 
education at all levels throughout the state ...
 MURRAY:
  It was brought out by a couple of other speakers that the music 
instructors are not that versed in jazz ...
 HARDIMAN:
 Right, I mentioned that too ....
 MURRAY:
  But we could increase the number of music instructors who are versed 
in jazz, could we not?
 HARDIMAN:
  We definitely need more jazz instructors at the college and university 
level.
 MURRAY:
  The person who completes this scholarship could teach in secondary 
schools, right?
 HARDIMAN:
 Yes, at any level.

  When I came up, I was a classical musician. When I graduated from 
college, I was a classical musician. I played jazz on the side and 
didn't learn jazz until I got out on the streets and picked up what I 
could. Nowadays, students can learn it if it's available to them like 
it is in the Berkeley School District. Berkeley has been a leader in 
jazz education.

  Even though it originated here, appreciation for jazz is not happening 
in the United States. We have to start young in order to build respect 
and appreciation.
 MURRAY:
 Thank you for your testimony, Mr. Hardiman.

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