[Dixielandjazz] Struttin With Some Barbecue

[Stan Brager]

Steve;

Begreen's book quotes a musician talking about how Lil would transcribe
Louis' playing. This is much the same way Bill Challis would write down
Bix's improvisations to score for the trumpet section. However, Begreen goes
further and insinuates that the mere act of transcribing caused Lil to get
"the impression that she was not just Louis's transcriber but also his
collaborator."

Steve, since Lil did not claim to be the co-composer of all of Louis' tunes
which she transcribed, why can't you give her the benefit of the doubt about
those tunes which she did claim to be Louis' collaborator?

Stan
--- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
To: "Stan Brager" <sbrager at socal.rr.com>; "Bill Haesler"
<bhaesler at bigpond.net.au>; "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Struttin With Some Barbecue


> on 5/7/07 10:52 PM, Stan Brager at sbrager at socal.rr.com wrote:
>
> > Hello Steve;
> >
> > You wrote "So IF Louis composed, Lil wrote it down and could easily put
L.
> > Armstrong down as composer fooling him while taking credit". This sounds
to
> > me as if you suspected Lil of being devious and/or dishonest.
>
> Yes indeed, I wrote that. But you did not take into account what I quoted
> from Bergreen's book in another post. Begreen says:
>
> "The collaborative nature of the enterprise (Hot 5/Hot 7) makes it nearly
> impossible to assign credit for the songs, no matter whose name was
> officially listed as composer, especially since many of the tunes were
> adaptations of older models. Even when Louis wrote an original song, he
left
> it to Lil to put on paper - 'Louis would play the melody and Lil would
write
> it down as fast as Louis played,' said one musician who observed them in
> action. This modus operandi gave Lil the impression that she was not just
> Louis's transcriber but also his collaborator. Eventually, the impression
> hardened into a conviction that prompted Lil to haunt Louis in court fort
> years to come."
>
> > With everything that's been written about the relationship of Lil and
Louis,
> > there is no hint of her trying to "fool" Louis.
> > Certainly, Louis was a trusting person and people like Joe Glaser took
> > advantage of Louis' nature. But Lil. with all her faults, wasn't like
that.
>
> There are written works about their relationship that do give us hints. In
> addition to the above, Louis himself is quoted as saying about Lil:(among
> other things) "I thought about how Lil had been running around with one of
> the Chicago pimps while I was at work. So as we Colored people say,
'What's
> is good for the goose is good for the gander. . . Ever since I was a
little
> boy in New Orleans hanging around those old hustlers and pimps down there
> (and they liked me very well) they used to tell me, 'Not one woman, no
> matter how pretty or sweet she may be.. Anytime she gets down wrong and
> ain't playing the part of a wife, get yourself somebody else, and get
> another woman much better than the last one at all times'".
>
> This is how Louis explained his reason for a relationship and later
marriage
> to Alpha after Lil finally granted him a divorce. There is a lot of
similar
> information about Lil from Louis and other sources as well.
>
> I think we (including me) tend to sugar coat history. We look at the good
> and ignore the bad. So that a few generations later, written history is
> cleansed of what "we" don't want to hear. No different from our current
> abhorrence of "terrorism". Yet during WW 2, US and British bombing raids
> deliberately targeted civilians. These raids were specifically call
"Terror"
> Raids" by US and British Air Force officials. "Designed to strike terror
> into the hearts of the German and Japanese population so that their will
to
> continue fighting would be broken." as quoted by Bomber Harris (UK) and
> Curtis LeMay (US). They, by design, killed almost 1 million civilians. Yet
> we have already forgotten that. (Not judging the right or wrong of it
here,
> just pointing out how we forget history and therefore seem condemned to
> repeat it)
>
> > Yes, they had disagreements especially when it came to "Struttin'". They
> > each had their own point of view and, until some builds a time machine
and
> > returns to those heady days, we'll never know what really happened.
>
> I wholeheartedly agree and that was my only point.
>
> Cheers
> Steve
>