[Dixielandjazz] Harlem Jazz? was Cartoon music of the Bratislava Hot Serenaders

[Jim Butler]

Good grief! I think Leon Redbone is jazz!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Brown" <jazzjerry at btinternet.com>
To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Harlem Jazz? was Cartoon music of the 
Bratislava Hot Serenaders


> Dear Steve,
>
> I will not dignify your pathetic response with a
> detailed reply except to say you have your  very
> narrow definition of jazz whereby the rest of the
> world has a more catholic view of the subject.
>
> To accuse either John Farrell or myself of failing to
> comprehend the written word of simply illustrates the
> futility of your argument.
>
> To make my position 100% clear:- The Dule Ellington
> Orchestra played 'jazz' as did the orchestras of
> Fletcher Henderson, Luis Russell,etc. and therefore a
> contempory band playing in the style of the aforesaid
> is also playing 'jazz'.
>
> Ediue Condon's mob also played jazz albeit in a
> different style as did Bunk Johnson, Dizzy Gillespie,
> Chick Corea, Red Allen, Benny Goodman and an amazingly
> long list of others. Maybe, Steve, you could enlighten
> us with your definition of 'jazz'?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jerry
> --- Steve Barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> on 3/12/07 1:40 AM, Jerry Brown at
>> jazzjerry at btinternet.com wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Steve,
>> >
>> > Thou doest utter from the wrong place. As probably
>> one
>> > of the few DJMLers to have seen the Bratislava Hot
>> > Serenaders live (Whitley Bay JF last year) I can
>> say
>> > that they are one of the best bands in their
>> > particular field.
>>
>> Hi Jerry
>> Re-read what I wrote. That's just about what I said.
>>
>> > To suggest that what they play is not jazz is
>> complete
>> > nonsense. During the course of their performances
>> they
>> > play plenty of Dule Ellington material and similar
>> > arrangements with improvised solos from individual
>> > band members.
>>
>> Research for yourself what Duke Ellington himself
>> said about his music and
>> you will find that he said: "I do not play jazz."
>> Why then, should bands who
>> play Ellington's music be classified, per se, as
>> jazz bands? And classical
>> musicians know when they improvise, that they are
>> not playing jazz either.
>>
>> > Yes they also play 'popular' and 'dance'
>> > music of the period but with a jazz feel but so
>> did
>> > the originators. I'm sure the King Oliver Creole
>> Jazz
>> > band played waltzs for the dancers although maybe
>> they
>> > did not record them.
>>
>> Not only conjecture, but irrelevant.
>>
>> > Certainly the ODJB did record
>> > waltzs and we know their biggest success in the UK
>> was
>> > the appearances at the Hammersmith Palais, one of
>> the
>> > biggest dance halls in London.
>>
>> Irrelevant.
>>
>> > You have achieved a landmark in the DJML annals in
>> > companing Duke Ellington's music with that of
>> Kenny G.
>> > Wow!
>>
>> What an astounding leap of logic. You need lessons
>> in reading comprehension.
>> I neither said nor implied that.
>>
>> > Maybe it is not the kind of freewheeling music as
>> > expertly played by Eddie Condon and his associates
>> > (and attempted by your band) but neither was the
>> music
>> > of Jelly Roll Morton's RHP, King Oliver's CJB,
>> > Fletcher Henderson and most other bands of the
>> > originating period of jazz.
>>
>> Not sure the above is true but, true or false, it's
>> totally Irrelevant.
>>
>> > I have been very quiet since returning to the DJML
>> but
>> > really could not these ridiculous remarks go
>> > unchallenged.
>>
>> Welcome back Jerry, It is a treat to have someone
>> like you, who cannot
>> comprehend the written word, back on list throwing
>> bombs. Challenge away,
>> but for goodness sake, make sense.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Steve Barbone
>>
>>
>>
>> > --- Steve Barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Robert S. Ringwald" <robert at ringwald.com>
>> >>
>> >>> Hey Bill,
>> >>>
>> >>> Please don't call it Cartoon Music.  It is
>> great,
>> >> Hot Harlem Jazz.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hi Bob:
>> >>
>> >> Do you mean Haarlem as in The Netherlands? I
>> can't
>> >> recall any bands in
>> >> Harlem NYC playing as Mickey Mouse as that.
>> >>
>> >> Seriously, though, the Bratislave musicians are
>> >> excellent. The band is well
>> >> arranged. BUT, Is it jazz?
>> >>
>> >> Guys like Eddie Condon would have said no and
>> >> reminded us that jazz in the
>> >> 1920s/30s was popularly associated with Whiteman,
>> >> Gershwin and Irving
>> >> Berlin. and that the Bratislava Band was playing
>> >> popular music.
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps that kind of music in the "jazz age", as
>> >> compared to the real jazz
>> >> of the originators, (Oliver, Bolden, Armstrong,
>> >> Bechet et al) is more like
>> >> what Kenny G and his clones play today, compared
>> to
>> >> the real jazz of this
>> >> and/or any other era?
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Steve Barbone
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >
>>
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>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
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