[Dixielandjazz] Bratislava Hot Serenaders - Hot Harlem Jazz?

[Steve Barbone]

"Robert S. Ringwald" <robert at ringwald.com> wrote (polite snip)
  
>>> Hey Bill, 
>>> Please don't call it Cartoon Music.  It is great, Hot Harlem Jazz.

>> Steve Barbone wrote:  I can't recall any bands in Harlem NYC playing as
>> Mickey Mouse as that.
 
> Bob wrote:  1. I don't think you were in Harlem in the 20s.

No I wasn't, but I was lucky enough to play with some of the Black guys who
were, and to discuss with them what what they perceived as between Harlem
Hot Jazz. Those people include, but are not limited to Coleman Hawkins, Roy
Eldridge, J. C. Higginbotham, Vic Dickenson and Sidney Bechet. In addition I
met and talked with lots of others including Omer Simeon and Doc Cheatham.
They were the ones who originally clued me in to the fact that both
Henderson and Ellington had started out as Dance bands, and later morphed
into jazz bands. Henderson's band later failed for various reasons, but
Ellington kept his intact through composing a huge volume of music, some of
which is jazz and some not. (by HIS definition)

One reason I was interested, as a young man about this era, the so-called
Harlem Renaissance, was because I was born in Harlem in the early 1930s at
Community Hospital near the old Polo Grounds. And at the time I was playing
in NYC with the above players, albeit occasionally, I was also going to
college and researching a term paper about the era. Wish I had saved it.
 
> Bob wrote 2. It was not at all mickey mouse.  It is something that the
> Nighthawks would play as really Hot jazz.

I would agree that it was not all Mickey Mouse and that the Night Hawks
would play this music. Then again, Vince has an extensive collection of
early "music". Some of which is "Hot Jazz", and some of which is "Dance
Music.," by HIS definitions. Vince's band is superb and his devotion to the
EXACT reproduction of the music down to the written out solos is quite
laudable. He is the very best in this field of endeavor and in my ears,
quite superior to any other band of this genre on the planet.
  
>> Seriously, though, the Bratislava musicians are excellent. The band is
>> well arranged. BUT, Is it jazz?
>> Guys like Eddie Condon would have said no and reminded us that jazz in the
>> 1920s/30s was popularly associated with Whiteman, Gershwin and Irving
>> Berlin. and that the Bratislava Band was playing popular music.

> As I said, they were playing the Hot Harlem Jazz of the late 20s and early
> 30s.

Say what you will, but based upon what facts? In order to categorize Harlem
Hot Jazz, one must be familiar with what the Black bands were doing in
Harlem during the 20s and 30s. Not only Fletcher Henderson, but Duke
Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Sidney Bechet, Chick Webb, Tommy Ladnier, Ethel
Waters, Cab Calloway, Fess Williams, Bessie Smith, Eubie Blake, Noble
Sissle, Jelly Roll Morton, Billie Holiday and many others. One has to listen
to the music of those black bands and singers as they performed it at the
Hoofers Club, Connie's Inn, Small's Paradise, the Cotton Club, (where
Ellington talked about some of the absurdity of what went on; "That part was
degrading and humiliating to both Negroes and Whites"), the Savoy, Club
Basha, The Apollo Theater, The Bamboo Palace, The Sugar Cane, and a bunch of
other venues including hundreds of rent parties.

Much of this Black "Hot Harlem Jazz" is available on the web for your
listening pleasure. Like the Henderson site which I posted, or the Chick
Webb at the Savoy YouTube which I posted. There is a huge difference between
this music and that of Bratislava. The only band that comes close to it, on
occasion, is Vince Giordano's Night Hawks because he reproduces the exact
music right down to the solos, when that music had been written down.

>> Perhaps that kind of music in the "jazz age", as compared to the real jazz
>> of the originators, (Oliver, Bolden, Armstrong, Bechet et al) is more like
>> what Kenny G and his clones play today, compared to the real jazz of this
>> and/or any other era?
 
> Sorry Steve, I have to respectfully say that you are all wet.

You are entitled to your opinion, but in what regard, Bob? My opinion that
Bratislava is made up of excellent musicians with good arrangements? Or that
it may not be real Harlem Hot Jazz? Or that Kenny G and his clones are not
playing real jazz?

Cheers,
Steve Barbone