[Dixielandjazz] Beginner sit ins

Tue Jul 10 09:34:29 PDT 2007

one of the advantages of the newer jazz models is that you can play almost 
any nonsense  and sell it to someone.  I hate to play a solo where the chord 
never changes and where the chord is a monster of some kind.  Also where you 
might have two chord changes that just migrate back and forth.  To me there 
is no direction or form but to them they can play almost anything against it 
and call it jazz.  OKOM is much less forgiving and the lines are drawn 
darker.  As time has gone by the musical lines have become very faint and 
the ears much more forgiving.  I just don't think that today's young jazz 
listener demands that continuity but is more impressed by musical 
gymnastics.

If you use the Oversold recordings you will notice that the tunes start out 
rather straight forward but after about the second time through the chords 
keep getting more advanced and by the end the progressions are getting 
blurred and you can explore things that you couldn't do in the first time or 
two.

I have taken issue on a lot of occasions with the educational system and 
teaching jazz but then again if they hear something in it and like it.   I 
shouldn't take a lot of issue with that because after all jazz is to be 
enjoyed.  I guess that I believe that you can't teach true art but only the 
mechanics of it and so many mistake the mechanics for art.
Larry
St. Louis
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J. D. Bryce" <brycejo at comcast.net>
To: "Larry Walton" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
Cc: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Beginner sit ins

> I'm inclined to agree with Ed.  My son got a degree in Music Education at
> the University of Maryland, College Park.  He studied jazz performance 
> with
> Chris Vidala; a superb alto sax soloist who played and recorded with Chuck
> Mangione. But in 4 years, he studied no trad at all.  It was all modern;
> post WW II to the present.
>
> I am certain that the reason high school jazz band directors select the
> repertoire they do, is because that's what they've been exposed to at
> college.  I played a gig with one of the heads of the UMD music 
> department,
> a tuba player. I asked him about why the kids aren't exposed to Eddie
> Sauter, Jerry Grey, Bill Challis and the other trad arrangers. He really
> didn't have an answer. The only Jerry Grey they play is "In the Mood." 
> They
> all know that one!
>
> My son is a fine sax player, but still is a bit at sea when it comes to 
> the
> trad repertoire.  He's used to playing tunes where there are perhaps 3 or 
> 4
> chord changes.  He gets in to Coltrane, exotic tri-tone substitutions and
> altissimo passages. Sujperb technique with variations and extended solos.
> But essentially, it does nothing for me. I need to hear changes and
> direction in solos.
>
> Jack Bryce
> Soon to be back in Jersey, Ed!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <Edmetzsr at aol.com>
> To: "Jack Bryce" <brycejo at comcast.net>
> Cc: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Beginner sit ins
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 7/9/2007 1:11:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> larrys.bands at charter.net writes:
>>
>> We have had Jazz Big band contests but has anyone else done this before 
>> on
> an
>> individual or small group basis?
>>
>> Larry, each year, the Treasure Coast Jazz Society awards substantial cash
>> prizes ($ thousands) to the "best" High School Jazz Musicians to apply
> toward
>> their College Treasure Chest.
>>     For the past two years (in late March or early April), I've been 
>> asked
> to
>> serve as a judge for the "auditions", along with another local musician
> more
>> oriented toward the more contemporary forms of jazz.
>>     The award(s) can be made to one, two or three of the students at the
>> discretion of the judges, with a review of the liaison person from the
> TCJS.
>>     In the two years of my term, the decision of the judges has not been
>> terribly difficult. No more than 6 students show up although they are
> encouraged
>> to do so by their band directors. The band directors seem to know which
> kids
>> have the kind of skills necessary to compete, at that age group. So far,
> we've
>> had graduating seniors only to judge.
>>     The real talent jumps right out, because the kids have to play at
> least
>> one number with some local pros. This year we had Red Hawley on drums, 
>> the
>> other judge on guitar and me on piano, and a local bass player, often
> Rabbit
>> Simmons. This was something that Parke Frankenfield was heavily involved
> with for
>> many years before his passing.
>>     Although the students get through their rehearsed selections quite
> well
>> (allowing for some jitters), like a Coltrane tune or a Bossa Nova, when 
>> it
>> comes time to play along with the pros, even on a simple blues like C Jam
> Blues,
>> they come apart. Last year, one young trumpet player played the heck out
> of a
>> difficult Myles Davis tune, but then sounded like a beginning freshman
> when it
>> came time to play along with a group - no ideas, no tone, no feel for
> chord
>> changes, etc. We were all embarrassed for him.
>>     So there you are. They all practice, practice, practice or their band
>> leaders wouldn't send them (more than a dozen High Schools are invited -
> private
>> as well as public) and they come in being able to play at a relatively
> skilled
>> level. However, most of them really fall down when it comes for knowing
> how
>> to play with a group, how to support other members of the group, and as
> for
>> repertoire - wow!!! Myles, Coltrane, are well represented. As for Bechet,
> Louis,
>> Bix, et al, WHO ARE THEY? That's a teacher problem in this day and age in
> my
>> opinion.
>>     When my son Eddie (who is well known to folks on this list) did his
>> senior recital for his Jazz Performance degree more than 20 years ago, he
> asked me
>> to join in and we did a bunch of obscure Benny Goodman things. The 
>> faculty
> was
>> astonished. In his 4 years at the school which included his stint with
> Count
>> Basie, never did any of his course work include taking a look at pre WWII
>> jazz. Imagine, a degree in Jazz Performance with no exposure to early
> jazz,
>> ragtime, or swing. Little wonder that today's high school teachers are 
>> not
> passing
>> along our great legacy. They don't have a clue!!!
>>     Time to quit!!
>> Ed Metz (Sr.)
>>
>>
>>
>> ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com.
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