[Dixielandjazz] Cartoon Music

[Stan Brager]

Steve;

Are you saying that Raymond Scott's "Powerhouse", for example, was cartoon
music when it was recorded?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
To: "Stan Brager" <sbrager at socal.rr.com>; <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Cartoon Music


> on 1/18/07 12:21 AM, Stan Brager at sbrager at socal.rr.com wrote:
>
> > Steve;
> >
> > You're getting close to seeing the legitimacy of Raymond Scott's music
for
> > its own sake. I'm glad that we're able to move this thread along.
> >
> > Steve, you seem to be saying that of all the people whose music was
adapted
> > for use in motion pictures, Raymond Scott is the only one who you think
> > wrote "cartoon music".
>
> No, not saying that at all.
>
> > You do this on the basis of Carl Stallings who had a
> > particular fondness for the music of Raymond Scott and that others have
also
> > who were introduced to Scott's music through Stallings' cartoons.  You
say
> > this even though people like Benny Goodman, John Kirby, Buddy Cole,
Billy
> > May, Bert Ambrose, Artie Shaw and others all recorded their versions of
> > Scott's music. "Twilight In Turkey", for a particular example was
recorded
> > by Red Nichols, Bert Ambrose, Stuff Smith, Artie Shaw, Oscar Aleman,
Tommy
> > Dorsey's Clambake 7, Isham Jones, Nat Gonella and a few more.
>
> No didn't say that either. Besides, a third party can take a piece of
> cartoon music and turn it into the hottest form of jazz imaginable.
Happens
> all the time.
>
> > Is this guilt by association?
>
> No.
> >
> > Steve, I grew up with the music of Raymond Scott in my ears although I
> > didn't know it at the time. I was too young. Later, when I saw Loony
Tunes
> > cartoons in the El Portal theater in North Hollywood, I heard those some
of
> > those same themes and, like so many others associated them with the
music of
> > the cartoons.
>
> Me too. That's the very definition of "cartoon music". Were they not then,
> at that time, cartoon music to you?
>
> > I soon learned that those themes were merely tokens taken from some
> > excellent jazz recordings and were written by Raymond Scott. There was a
> > greater significance to "Powerouse" played by the Raymond Scott Sextette
> > than the cartoon adaptations of Carl Stallings.
>
> That's how cartoon music became an "art form".
>
> > Yes, I still enjoy watching a Loony Tunes cartoon and listening to the
> > music. But it's just incidental music used to carry the story of the
> > cartoon. It lacks the solos of Dave Wade on trumpet, Dave Harris on
tenor,
> > Pete Pumiglio on clarinet and the drumming of John Williams. I still
think
> > of the music as jazz.
>
> That is your right.
>
>  > By the way, by definition Fantasia, Snow White, Who Framed Roger
Rabbit,
> > Cars, Steamboat Wily, etc are all animated movies or cartoons. Length
> > doesn't matter.
>
> Of course length matters. :-) VBG. BTW, didn't Who Framed Roger Rabbit
have
> some live actors in it also?
>
> > If the images are drawn, they are cartoons.
>
> Not so, according the the people who make animated movies as opposed to
> cartoons. I am repeating what "they" are saying. And since they are the
> creators, who are we to say it isn't so?
>
> > A "short" by def
> > inition is a movie which is not as long as the full-length film.
Therefore,
> > many cartoons, travel films, soundies, etc are all shorts.
>
> I don't think one would describe a cartoon as a short. They are different.
> In animation, you have two categories: 1) Cartoons and 2) Animated Movies.
> Cartoons have a short time frame. Animated movies have a feature length
time
> frame. In live productions, you also have two categories. Shorts, which
have
> a short time frame and "Movies" which are feature length. Those parameters
> are by definition as well as in common usage in Hollywood and other places
> where shorts, cartoons and animated movies and regular movies are
produced,
> and all three are different things.
>
> I should think the creators of Fantasia would be rightfully pissed if we
> insist that it is a cartoon, simply because it was animated. If animation
> makes a movie a cartoon, then just about all movies today with lots of
> computer generated graphics (special effects) are cartoons. And that is
not
> so, according to Disney Corp.
>
> There are currently 49 Animated Movies in Disney's "Official Canon of
> Animated Movies". Starting with Snow White 1938 and ending with Frog
> Princess to be released in 2009. This canon does not include Disney
cartoons
>
> There are also 10 live action films which include some Animation in the
> Disney Canon. Starting with The Reluctant Dragon in 1941 and ending with
> Enchanted to be released  November 2007.
>
> The Canon also lists Pixar films like Toy Story, Finding Nemo etc.
>
> All categorized by Disney as "Animated Movies" and not cartoons.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>