[Dixielandjazz] Cartoon Music

[Steve Barbone]

on 1/18/07 12:21 AM, Stan Brager at sbrager at socal.rr.com wrote:

> Steve;
> 
> You're getting close to seeing the legitimacy of Raymond Scott's music for
> its own sake. I'm glad that we're able to move this thread along.
> 
> Steve, you seem to be saying that of all the people whose music was adapted
> for use in motion pictures, Raymond Scott is the only one who you think
> wrote "cartoon music".

No, not saying that at all.

> You do this on the basis of Carl Stallings who had a
> particular fondness for the music of Raymond Scott and that others have also
> who were introduced to Scott's music through Stallings' cartoons.  You say
> this even though people like Benny Goodman, John Kirby, Buddy Cole, Billy
> May, Bert Ambrose, Artie Shaw and others all recorded their versions of
> Scott's music. "Twilight In Turkey", for a particular example was recorded
> by Red Nichols, Bert Ambrose, Stuff Smith, Artie Shaw, Oscar Aleman, Tommy
> Dorsey's Clambake 7, Isham Jones, Nat Gonella and a few more.

No didn't say that either. Besides, a third party can take a piece of
cartoon music and turn it into the hottest form of jazz imaginable. Happens
all the time.
 
> Is this guilt by association?

No.
> 
> Steve, I grew up with the music of Raymond Scott in my ears although I
> didn't know it at the time. I was too young. Later, when I saw Loony Tunes
> cartoons in the El Portal theater in North Hollywood, I heard those some of
> those same themes and, like so many others associated them with the music of
> the cartoons.

Me too. That's the very definition of "cartoon music". Were they not then,
at that time, cartoon music to you?
 
> I soon learned that those themes were merely tokens taken from some
> excellent jazz recordings and were written by Raymond Scott. There was a
> greater significance to "Powerouse" played by the Raymond Scott Sextette
> than the cartoon adaptations of Carl Stallings.

That's how cartoon music became an "art form".
 
> Yes, I still enjoy watching a Loony Tunes cartoon and listening to the
> music. But it's just incidental music used to carry the story of the
> cartoon. It lacks the solos of Dave Wade on trumpet, Dave Harris on tenor,
> Pete Pumiglio on clarinet and the drumming of John Williams. I still think
> of the music as jazz.

That is your right.

 > By the way, by definition Fantasia, Snow White, Who Framed Roger Rabbit,
> Cars, Steamboat Wily, etc are all animated movies or cartoons. Length
> doesn't matter.

Of course length matters. :-) VBG. BTW, didn't Who Framed Roger Rabbit have
some live actors in it also?

> If the images are drawn, they are cartoons.

Not so, according the the people who make animated movies as opposed to
cartoons. I am repeating what "they" are saying. And since they are the
creators, who are we to say it isn't so?

> A "short" by def
> inition is a movie which is not as long as the full-length film. Therefore,
> many cartoons, travel films, soundies, etc are all shorts.

I don't think one would describe a cartoon as a short. They are different.
In animation, you have two categories: 1) Cartoons and 2) Animated Movies.
Cartoons have a short time frame. Animated movies have a feature length time
frame. In live productions, you also have two categories. Shorts, which have
a short time frame and "Movies" which are feature length. Those parameters
are by definition as well as in common usage in Hollywood and other places
where shorts, cartoons and animated movies and regular movies are produced,
and all three are different things.

I should think the creators of Fantasia would be rightfully pissed if we
insist that it is a cartoon, simply because it was animated. If animation
makes a movie a cartoon, then just about all movies today with lots of
computer generated graphics (special effects) are cartoons. And that is not
so, according to Disney Corp.

There are currently 49 Animated Movies in Disney's "Official Canon of
Animated Movies". Starting with Snow White 1938 and ending with Frog
Princess to be released in 2009. This canon does not include Disney cartoons

There are also 10 live action films which include some Animation in the
Disney Canon. Starting with The Reluctant Dragon in 1941 and ending with
Enchanted to be released  November 2007.

The Canon also lists Pixar films like Toy Story, Finding Nemo etc.

All categorized by Disney as "Animated Movies" and not cartoons.

Cheers,
Steve Barbone