[Dixielandjazz] cartoon music"

Wed Jan 17 13:58:28 PST 2007

As first a strong reader and then, recently, an improviser, my experience and
belief  is that if the talent is there, a person can do both.  It is a matter of
practice.

Russ Guarino

"Larry Walton Entertainment - St. Louis" wrote:

> At present I play off an on with three Mickey bands.  If you get even a
> little off the section just doesn't work.  Everything is very precise.  I
> have pretty much made the decision to not play with these groups because it
> requires very good and precise reading skills.  Alas mine are up and down
> and it makes me nervous and it's too much like work.  I prefer working from
> a fake book much more than heavy reading gigs.  This is why I never play
> lead alto in big bands.  I have a friend in the AF band who has way above
> average reading and technical ability with great sound but his jazz solos
> always seem staged and stiff.  I also know another guy in the same band that
> can blow away almost anyone in both areas.
>
> If you had a ruler (disregarding technical ability) that had  Jazzers who
> couldn't read at the zero end and  readers who couldn't fake at the 12 inch
> mark with people who did both equally well where would you fit?  I think I
> would be at about the  four inch mark.
>
> I got a good laugh the other day.  I checked into the web site for a local
> radio station that has a Jazz hall of fame.  One of the big bands had their
> entire lineup on the list.  Virtually everyone in that group wouldn't know a
> jazz solo from selling shoes.  They mostly fit on the 11 and 12 inch mark
> with a couple at around the 7 or 8 inch mark.
>
> There are two distinct skills required and I'm not convinced that very many
> musicians are good at both.  Expert reading skill almost precludes
> improvisational skills.  I know that's not a fast rule but it just seems to
> work out that way.  It may have more to do with the ability to focus on
> drills and precision as versus relaxed and laid back.  It may have more to
> do with a person's general attitude toward life in general than left right
> brain thinking.
>
> Food for thought.  I have noticed that really good readers I know TEND to be
> of differing political parties than jazzers.  It would be interesting if a
> scientific survey could be conducted to see if there is any truth to that.
> I wonder if that has a bearing on who musicians elect to office in their
> unions.  Cities that have a strong Symphony orchestra might be expected to
> elect non jazzers whereas some place that has a lot of jazzers might be
> expected to elect their own kind.  Are good readers more religious than
> jazzers?  How about being more or less patriotic?  Left or right handed?
> Divorces?  Sex?  There are a zillion different things that might be
> interesting to ask.
>
> I think that there are a lot more differences between people who improvise
> well and don't read well and those who read well and don't improvise than
> you think.  Hey students that would make a great Doctoral.
> Larry
> St. Louis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Suhor" <csuhor at zebra.net>
> To: "Steve Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
> Cc: "dixieland jazz mail list" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>; "Russ
> Guarino" <russg at redshift.com>; "Bill Haesler" <bhaesler at bigpond.net.au>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 5:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Porte ñ a Jazz Band/"cartoon music"
>
> > Agree with both Russ and Steve that the "cartoon" music and related
> > styles are precise and take a good reader to play them well. In fact,
> > you can ruin a good Mickey arrangement by getting either careless or
> > too hip.
> >
> > I don't enjoy playing those styles, but that's a a matter of taste. I'm
> > not a good sight reader, so that makes ANY reading gig a challenge, and
> > "harder" than a fake/jam/jazz gig for me. Just the opposite for most of
> > the players in the 18 piece band I play with. Jazz isn't just harder
> > than playing the charts for 13 of them. They flat can't do it. I could
> > improve my reading, a matter of degree, much easier than they could
> > make what's a quantum leap for them into jazz. They've mastered the art
> > of jazz section playing, no small accomplishment, but as Steve says,
> > it's rarer to find competent jazz improvisers in any style. Of course,
> > many are good at both, and they work a lot.
> >
> > Charlie Suhor
> >
> > On Jan 16, 2007, at 4:06 PM, Steve Barbone wrote:
> >
> >> on 1/16/07 4:40 PM, Russ Guarino at russg at redshift.com wrote:
> >>> Call it what you will,
> >>>
> >>> If you have ever sat in a band that played this kind of music, you
> >>> know how
> >>> challenging it is.  Requires fast, precise playing in ensemble
> >>> settings.
> >>> Everybody had to be an exceptional musician.
> >>
> >> Yes, I totally agree and said so in my original post.
> >>
> >>> I have always found it exhilarating to play this music.
> >>
> >> Each to his own. I can understand that. I hate to play it. To me it is
> >> like
> >> playing Glenn Miller arrangements.
> >>
> >>> Trad jazz is easy by comparison.
> >>
> >> Totally disagree. Any trained musician can play cartoon music well.
> >> Only a
> >> very few musicians of any sort can play trad jazz well. Especially the
> >> improvisation part which many cannot do at all.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Steve Barbone
> >>
> >
> >
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