[Dixielandjazz] What happened to Jazz?

[Charles Suhor]

In this interesting strand, I continue to find Steve's sense of the 
history and  the times right on target.

One observation I haven't seen, though--the 20's were rightly called 
"the Jazz Age," and the music of Louis, Bix, and others was a huge 
force in jazz and popular music then, but it wasn't nearly as dominant 
as jazz fans like to think. There were innumerable dance bands that 
didn't improvise much or at all but played charts that sounded 
basically like late ragtime or early Mickey. Some bands played the 
charts and had jazzers doing solos--Ted Lewis, Paul Whiteman. Others 
were strictly into the charts but gave work to jazz players (Cootie 
Williams and Edmond Hall in Ross DeLuxe Syncopators). The are bands 
that specialize in resurrecting these razzmatazz, Charleston-sounding, 
whiney and by any account corny charts. I've heard those of Karl Koenig 
and Jack Stewart (New Leviathan Fox Trot Orchestra). Jack has tellingly 
joked that the band "revives music that isn't worth reviving." There 
are some of the qualities of jazz in the music, but basically it's 
rhythmic dance music without improv or loose, relaxed jazz phrasing. 
 From a jazz point of view they're of historical interest, and you slap 
your knee when you hear them, but they aren't the kind of music that 
most of us would listen to for a long sitting or return to as we do to 
the jazz that delivers continuous musical stimulation and joy.

Back to Steve's views. If you lived and played or at least were 
listening closely through the transitional years in the U.S. from swing 
onward (I'm 71 so I pass the old codger test), you'll recognize his 
descriptions right away. Jazz historians who haven't lived the years 
but researched them deeply support Steve's interpretation. I also think 
that a point made in several entries is important--things developed 
differently in musical evolution here in the States and in England, 
Australia, and elsewhere, where trad had a longer shelf life as popular 
music.

Charlie Suhor


On Jan 10, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Steve Barbone wrote:

>  pat ladd at pj.ladd at btinternet.com wrote:
>
>> No more difficult then humming or playing Stevie Wonder's "Sir Duke" 
>> t>>
>>
>> Theres a thought Steve, when was the last time you heard someone 
>> whistling
>> in the street?  I always whistle, anything, from DYKWIM to Misty to 
>> Miss
>> Jenny`s Ball but I must admit I get some strange looks.
>> This of course maybe because I have a full band playing in my head 
>> and I am
>> only whistling a part, or maybe because I don`t whistle very well.
>
> You broke me up there Pat because I too have that band going in my 
> head all
> the time. And as a bad whistler, I hum constantly, generating some 
> strange
> looks from people around me. My wife often says to them; "He's a 
> musician."
> which always gets a smile from strangers. Very rarely do I hear others
> whistling or humming in public.
>
>> What would the modern youngster whistle? There are no tunes which I 
>> can
>> discern in the stuff I hear on the radio.
>
> I don't listen to much of the radio music so I don't know. However, 
> from
> what I see on the top selling downloads, and albums there appears to 
> be some
> humable stuff out there. Etta James "At Last" type songs. Someone 
> might want
> to check out the latest vocal albums and let us know.
>
>> Not sure about the timing of the demise of jazz. Perhaps it was 
>> different in
>> the States. I can never remember OKOM as being a main stream radio 
>> genre.
>> Here, by the early  Forties when I was 11 or 12 years old,  the main 
>> music
>> on the radio was `dance music` Henry Hall, Geraldo, Cyril Stapleton 
>> etc and
>> then the `real` swing bands began to take over,under the influence of 
>> the
>> American Big Bands,  The Squadronaires, Joe Loss, and so on. Again 
>> this was
>> music for dancing. Dance Halls were full every night of the week. 
>> There were
>> plenty of small groups still working and I was attending Sunday 
>> afternoon
>> concerts listening to, Vic Lewis, Harry Gould, Nat Gonella, Ray 
>> Ellington
>> Quartet.
>
> It was the same in the US. The major popular music here was dance 
> music and
> stuff like Bing Crosby crooning popular (not jazz) tunes and Frank 
> Sinatra
> singing non-jazz tunes with bands like Tommy Dorsey that were (IMO) not
> Jazz, but Dance Bands. As I see it, the 1920's were called "The Jazz 
> Age"
> and not the 1930s. Perhaps what many of us forget in the USA is that:
>
> By the mid 1950s, rock and roll, had evolved from black rhythm and 
> blues,
> with strong beats and sometimes risqué lyrics. The black audience had
> neither been enamoured of 1930s style Dixieland, nor Bop. R & B 
> written by
> blacks for blacks, also appealed to white teenagers, for whom 
> listening to
> it over black-oriented radio stations late at night became a cult like
> event. Aware of this emerging market, white performers and arrangers 
> began
> to "cover "R & B songs, toning down the beat and cleaning up the 
> lyrics.
> E.G. "Ain't That a Shame," (1955) a rock hit by, "Fats" Domino, became 
> an
> even bigger hit with a ballad-like cover by Pat Boone. This genre made 
> some
> jazz players, e.g. Louis Prima, into major stars.
>
> Then, along came Elvis, a charismatic white man who could sing with 
> the high
> energy appeal of a black man, generating an enormous following among 
> the
> white audience. Soon to be followed by The Beatles, the UK's most 
> famous
> musical export. No way was Jazz in any form going to be able to 
> compete with
> that, unless merged into it like Miles' electric funk or fusion 
> efforts.
>
>> Bop emerged and split the ranks and a good slice of the music became 
>> to
>> clever to whistle or dance to. There was a lot of experimentation, 
>> Kenny
>> Baker and his AfroCubists and so forth but never really big.
>> The big jazz revival came along with Acker, Lightfoot, Ball, and then 
>> it all
>> went to hell.  There was still work playing the `old` dance music but 
>> it was
>> no longer the main stuff on the radio.
>> There are still dozens of jazz (OKOM) bands  playing in the UK , more 
>> per
>> square mile than in the States I suspect, but it is mainly club gigs 
>> and
>> festivals.  Festivals are well attended but few youngsters appear.
>
> Agree that bop split the "jazz" ranks etc., and that all sorts of
> innovation, experimentation occurred to take "jazz" into different
> directions. But the predominant jazz form today seems to be "smooth 
> jazz"
> here in the USA. Yeah, I know folks, some of us don't consider that as
> "real" jazz, but then, we are neither the majority view, nor the folks 
> who
> define "jazz" in the 21st Century, even IF we are right.
>
>> Thats my take on it . Probably way off beam.  Exit stage left. 
>> Whistling.../
>
> Your take is on beam IMO. Right now, "I'm humming Bird's "Now's The 
> Time"..
> :-) VBG.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>
>
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