[Dixielandjazz] What happened to Jazz?

[Marek Boym]

In the ealry and mid-sixties, "trad" was the most popular dance music in the 
UK.  I was there in 1964, and saw kids filling jazz clubs and dancing their 
a***s off!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:14 PM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] What happened to Jazz?


>
> I don't agree with the popular notion that Bop started the decline of trad
> jazz, In fact far from it.
>
> Trad jazz, e.g. small band Dixieland, Louis Armstrong type stuff etc.,
> started to decline much earlier than when bop became popular as a jazz 
> form.
>
> Remember, the "West Coast Trad jazz Revival" began in the late 1930's 
> which
> would indicate that trad had been in decline before that time. And during
> the 1930's, Louis was playing with and/or fronting larger dance bands, not
> playing the good old Hot5/7 stuff. He didn't come back to small band
> Dixieland until 1947, during the so-called bop years. He and the All 
> Stars,
> became immensely popular all over again.
>
> And the "New Orleans Jazz Revival" in NYC started in the mid 1940's when 
> Bop
> was also getting popular. That Revival co-existed nicely with bop into the
> early 1960s.
>
> Bop itself had a very short life span as "popular" jazz. From about 1945 
> to
> about 1960 by which time it was no longer revolutionary. Miles and Ornette
> then took Bop to other places. Fusion, Free Jazz etc.
>
> If you want to pin a primary causal factor on the demise of Trad Jazz, 
> IMO,
> it would be "Swing". But even then, we fall into the trap of thinking that
> as one style becomes popular, the other one dies. That is not the case 
> IMO.
> They all coexist together. None really dies, some just become less 
> popular.
>
> What I remember from the 1950s in NYC was first that bop was already in
> decline. And Swing was also in decline with the breakup of most big swing
> bands. The ex-swing band musicians then became Dixieland players because 
> in
> NYC, at least, Dixieland was booming. More so than bop. Swing players like
> DeParis, Eldridge, Jonah Jones, Vic Dickenson, even Hawkins, and countless
> others all came to play Dixieland.
>
> But, since neither Swing, nor Dixieland was played for dancers any more, 
> the
> kids had to go elsewhere. And that elsewhere was Elvis, Beatles, and
> countless other Rock bands who were simply playing The Blues for kids who
> liked to dance.
>
> Much is made over supposed hip bop musicians disrespecting mouldy fig
> Dixieland players and vice versa and a lot of that is politically correct
> bullshit created by the media types. Many of those quotes are taken out of
> context and do not reflect what was really happening on the scene.
>
> Like when Clifford Brown became known, it was Pee Wee Erwin who told me I
> should listen to him. And Davern was aware of, and saw the positives in 
> Free
> Jazz. He even played it with Archie Shepp, Roswell Rudd Charlie Haden and
> others. Many of the "real" jazz players in the 50s were not only cognizant
> of, but could appreciate what the "other" guys were doing. Even if they
> didn't completely agree with what the others were doing. Contrary to 
> popular
> belief, Dizzy and Louis were GREAT FRIENDS as well as neighbors in Corona.
>
> What killed trad jazz? The fact that it was no longer being played for 
> kids
> who were interested in Booze, Dancing, Carousing and Hooking Up. It is 
> that
>
> simple, and any of you old farts out there who went to the Central Plaza 
> or
> the Stuyvesant Casino in NYC in the 40s and 50s will surely remember that
> truly wonderful scene. Too bad it ended.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>
>
>
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