[Dixielandjazz] Sit Ins

Sat Dec 15 23:43:12 PST 2007

I do allow sit ins if they are directly related to the gig or the client 
even if they are for shit.  I was working a home and some old guy wanted to 
sit in on guitar.  He was terrible and loud but you could tell that he had 
been a fair player at one time.  The recreation coordinator loved it and I 
got two more gigs off of that one.  One with my 7 pc band.

I too let guys sit in if I know them and that they can play but that almost 
never happens because of the nature of my gigs.

I have a pretty strict personal code about sitting in.  First I have only 
one time ever asked to sit in with a band who didn't know me.  I never ask 
to sit in with bands who I know unless the leader ASKS me, then it will be 
only for a couple of tunes.  I thank them and sit down.

I have a personal etiquette that I don't violate for any reason.  I'm not 
there to work and I'm not there to inflict myself upon someone or to make 
anyone uncomfortable.  That's not to say that there hasn't been times when I 
would have liked to sit in.

I guess I'm different.  I have never sat in with bands to get experience. 
Everything I know was the result of paid gigs from age 15 and playing with 
groups in the AF bands.  You don't play with groups in the AF unless you 
know pretty much what you are doing.  There is a pecking order there too. 
When I first got in I didn't play much with the jazzers but over time I got 
in the protocol combo but that was by invitation and became part of my job.

Everyone makes mistakes and sucks when they start but I sort of fail to see 
how sitting in on three or four tunes can compare with a four hour gig or do 
anyone much good.  Gigs focus the mind and you pretty quickly get over the 
sucking stage because if you don't you don't get any more.

I think that an aspiring musician should put together a group and book it. 
That's what I did when I was young and still do.  I have a friend who plays 
pretty fair guitar and only fair piano.  He sings well and as long as he is 
using his book he is good.  Put him on someone else's book - look out.    My 
friend is very good at HIS game in his ball park.

I suggest forming your own group because you are at a distinct disadvantage 
when someone else can call the tunes (that you don't know) and the keys 
(oops I can't play in E ) and the speeds ( damn that's fast).

My advice is put together your best 50 tunes and look for a gig.  Who cares 
if you don't have any depth as long as the 50 are good.  Musicians follow 
the money. If you have gigs you can hire the best musicians that will make 
you look very good.

If you can't do that then find several people who want to play and form a 
basement band.

We had a young lady sit in with us on rehearsals.  She has good to excellent 
technique but she hasn't a clue as to how to swing.  With her it's all notes 
with little music coming out.  Her dad thinks she's wonderful.  Privately 
band members came to me and let me know in no uncertain terms that they 
didn't like her sitting in.  I'm not running a school for young aspiring 
jazzers.  I think the only one that aspires is her dad.  She's sitting in 
with the big band her dad plays with on third trumpet.  I could tell that 
she thought she was in heaven and really swinging or else she has been 
taking smile lessons from the Mona Lisa.

If there was an establishment available that encouraged sit in's then I 
would personally go and give it a try but even then there is an etiquette 
about it.  Like Steve said take a chorus and let someone else have a go. 
Play a tune and sit down, have a beer, enjoy.  I wouldn't fool myself into 
believing that I was getting some magical experience by playing three or 
four tunes whenever.

I have been invited several times by leaders to come and play.  Other 
musicians in the band didn't always take it well.  I was asked by a very 
fine banjo player to sit in with his band.  The tuba player was a complete 
jerk about it so I packed up and left.  It wasn't even his band.  I don't 
need that stuff.
Larry
StL
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
To: "Larry Walton" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Sit Ins

> Here's my 2 cents, once again, on this subject:
>
> I neither allow, nor recommends that anyone else allow, every Tom Dick or
> Harry to sit in with my/your band. I categorically refuse strangers who
> bring their axe into the venue and ask to sit in.
>
> What I do is invite folks to sit in, whom I know can play, when I feel 
> like
> it. Or friends of the client when he asks us to let "Joe's son sit in." In
> those cases we have a one tune rule, explained in advance, and then will
> extend that if we feel like it, and the person can play, to a second tune.
>
> That being said, I will invite YOUNG wannabes to sit-in if I know that 
> they
> have sharpened their axe skills by wood shedding, playing with records,
> taken advice and/or lessons from a professional mentor and know how to 
> play
> or sing. WHY?
>
> Because that's how I got started as a teenage wannabe. I sat in with Pee 
> Wee
> Erwin, Chuck Traeger, Billy Maxted, Tony Spargo, Sal Pace et al at Nick's
> and Condon's. And later with Bechet, Hawkins Eldridge et al. And then I 
> got
> invited on paying gig with them. Those gentlemen, REAL PROS, all of them,
> extended me every courtesy when I was a kid, even though I was no where 
> near
> their league.
>
> After a musician has learned his axe, and about jazz, the best way to
> sharpen his skills and become professional is to sit in with 
> professionals.
>
> And that's how Jonathan Russell got started playing PROFESSIONALLY. 
> SITTING
> IN with Ed Polcer and then with Dick Hyman, Bucky Pizzarelli, Les Paul,
> Svend Asmussen et al. To the point where I paid him to come down from NYC
> and play professional gigs with us when he was 8 years old, and I pay him
> well these days to continue. (like $200 an hour in some cases)
>
> I don't sweat what the client thinks, because we are not getting paid to
> play arranged music. We are being paid, on one hand to play jazz but more
> importantly to entertain the client's audience. I have not forgotten what
> happened to Artie Shaw on his first gig as a leader. He was extolling the
> expertise of his band, his musicians, how they played top drawer music, 
> how
> great they were, etc.  The Venue manager said something like this:
>
> "Look Shaw, I don't give a shit how good you think your band is, or how 
> good
> you are, or how good your arrangements are. I am paying you to keep the 
> room
> full and the customers happy. If they will pay to come in here every night
> to see you drop your pants and take a crap on stage, then I'll pay you to 
> go
> do it." That is the reality of the "music business".
>
> Regarding sit ins not knowing arrangements etc, well we view jazz as a
> language that good jazz musicians all understand and speak. And a sit in
> jazz musician, if he is good, can come in and speak with us, or we with 
> him,
> with no trouble what so ever. I wish I had a dollar for every time I went 
> to
> a Jazz Club in NYC in the 1950s and saw Pros sitting in with other Pros.
> Like Buddy Rich with Basie. Didn't bother Rich at all that he couldn't 
> read
> music. He knew where the breaks and fills were. Etc.
>
> My band does not get all worked up over arrangements in jazz.  I wish I 
> had
> a dollar every time I worked in a pick-up group with guys I had rarely
> worked with. Like Hawkins, Eldridge, Erwin, Traeger, Bechet, Jon Erik
> Kellso, Randy Reinhart, et al. We worked without charts, without
> arrangements, without music stands and we blew the doors off the venues.
> The music wasn't always clean either, but then, that's jazz IMO. The
> excitement carried the day.
>
> In my experience clients have no opinion one way or another about sit-ins.
> They do have opinions about the bottom line and how well we entertain the
> audience. That's why I do not allow sit ins whom I do not know. And it is
> also the reason why I do invite young players to sit in. Partly to pass 
> the
> torch to the younger generations and partly to pay back the kindness that
> some real Professional jazz musicians extended to me when I was a kid. And
> partly to entertain the audience.
>
> And why, if Tony Scott (or other top flight pro) had walked into a place
> where I was playing, I would, like Kash did, break my own no sit in rule 
> and
> invite him to sit in.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>
>
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