[Dixielandjazz] No chordal Instrument - was Two horn front line

Mon Sep 18 10:48:31 PDT 2006

The problem with two chordal players is similar to the problem with Trombone 
and Tenor Sax.  Both play in the same range and if not careful will run into 
each other.  Another example, that I would think no one in their right mind 
would try, is Tuba and Bass Sax.  Talk about a train wreck.  Players have to 
be able to be sensitive as to what others are doing and why they are doing 
it.

I have no problem with a banjo and piano as long as they are playing the 
same chord.  The difference might be in which inversion they are using. 
Since Dixie tends to use simple chords rather than complex chords then it 
becomes IMHO less of a problem.  The guy that's trying to throw in 
everything but the kitchen sink might be the problem.

I view the Banjo as more a rhythm instrument that plays chords  and the 
piano a melody/ chording instrument that plays rhythm.  Their role, while 
similar, is also opposite at the same time and if the players are any good 
can make this difference work.

Now when you ad a drummer to the mix then the Banjo and piano need to change 
again depending on how aggressive the drummer is.  I think of the piano most 
of the time as a fill instrument.  With the vastly different sounds of the 
trad lineup you need that fill.  Also I like a bass drum with a little ring 
and deeper boom than almost all drummers have today.  They have more of a 
pop sound - short duration punch - rather than a deeper fill sound.  You 
don't hear bass drum on old recordings because I suppose the equipment 
couldn't pick it up.  Yet all the photos you see use a rather large deep 
bass drum and of course would have a skin head that would vary with the 
humidity.  Guess what New Orleans and the South have very high humidity 
which would typically cause the bass to sound differently than the plastic 
heads in use today.  I think that the Bass drum was a primary fill 
instrument for the old bands.

I hadn't thought about that lineup Ken, but I think it would sound great 
with the right drummer and especially the right banjo player.  As in all 
small group playing the load falls heavier on each person and the load would 
fall heavier on the banjo player and requires someone that could take 
choruses.

I played a four hour gig Saturday followed by a second four hour gig and I 
had to ease back on the first gig.  I had inadvertently bit my lip Friday 
night and I had to rely on the trombone player to take choruses.  We did 
tunes typically three times with trombone taking the middle chorus and 
sometimes the tuba played a chorus.  I needed that little break. It would 
have been nice if the banjo player could have taken turns.   Normally I 
would have played (soprano) a whole lot more background riffs and fill 
notes.   The soloist lineup is usually everyone plays the head and the 
clarinet/soprano takes the first run at it giving the cornet and trombone 
player a chop break.  Then the trombone takes one giving the clarinet a chop 
break.  Other solos help too then everyone does the out chorus. The smaller 
the group the more each has to work and in a four hour situation with a 
small group the load can get heavy if everyone isn't doing their job.

I was overjoyed to be playing opposite a real pro with cast iron chops and I 
was still going strong at the end of the second four hours.  The second gig 
was a wedding reception (Tenor/Alto) with a 6 piece swing/Motown sound.  The 
last three hours are always a lot of screaming rock

Players have to listen to and rely upon the players around them to bring 
about the best.  That may be the real difference between the pros and 
wannabees.
Larry
St. Louis
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 8:54 PM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] No chordal Instrument - was Two horn front line

> on 9/17/06 3:00 PM, dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com at
> dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com wrote:
>
> Russ Guarino <russg at redshift.com> wrote:
>
>>The majority of my casuals are done as a quartet, with Clarinet, Bass Sax,
>>Banjo [ or keyboard or guitar ] and drums.
>>
>>I have a strong, clear, robust clarinet tone, so, the lead is played by 
>>the
>>clarinet with follow up solos by the bass sax and then the chordal 
>>instrument
>>[guitar, banjo or keyboard ], with the last chorus played by the clarinet.
>>Sometimes we will have a vocal as the second or third chorus.
>>
>>The key  is the chordal instrument. Without the chordal instrument, the 
>>band
>>absolutely doesn't work. The  bass sax does the bass line and solos. Our 
>>Bass
>>Sax guy is superb, both bass line and solos. The clarinet does the role of 
>>the
>>lead horn since there is no cornet in our band.
>>
>>Of course, the drum does the drum thing, and a good drummer can really add 
>>a
>>lot to the tune, both doing background rhythm as well as solos, accents 
>>and
>>endings.
>>
>>Seems to work well.
>>
>>We have developed into a foursome as a result of the pressure to keep our
>>price low.  When the customer can afford a higher price, we then add the
>>cornet,T-bone and have both banjo and keyboard. At that point we have a 
>>real
>>Dixieland sound and "knock 'em out".
>
> While I agree with Russ, generally, I disagree about the "chordal
> instrument". Assuming the players know their counterpoint, you don't need
> one.
>
> Gerry Mulligan did fine without a chord instrument as did Paul Grant 
> during
> his run at the Showboat Casino in Atlantic City. Paul Grant's New Orleans
> Swing (quintet) included a Tuba, Drummer, Trumpet, Trombone and Clarinet.
>
> In essence, it was a smaller version of a New Orleans Marching Band and
> successfully wowed the crowds there an average of 3 days a week for 15
> months.
>
> It was different for the first few days, especially always soloing with 
> only
> drum and bass during the 4 hour gig, but it soon became second nature and
> everybody in the band became a better player because of it. So I would say
> the bass is the key to a successful small group. He has to provide the 
> right
> bottom in order to make it work.
>
> Biggest problem with both banjo and keyboard in a group is that unless 
> they
> are both excellent players, they often play different chords. :-) VBG.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
> 