[Dixielandjazz] Horn Parts and Rags

[Hal Vickery]

Oh, I don't disagree with you at all.  That's why I said it's disgusting "to
modern eyes."  And had I been thinking I would have added something that Ron
wrote about in his reply.  African Americans wore the burnt cork makeup,
too.  I'm certainly not condemning people for using standards of their own
era by imposing the standards of OUR era.

The main point I was trying to make is that those standards were accepted to
well within the lifetimes of many (if not most) of us on this list.  One
thing I neglected to mention is that Charles Correll and Freeman Gosden
performed on network radio as Amos 'n' Andy until the early '60s (by which
time they were reduced to spinning records).  This was just a couple of
years before the Voting Rights Act of 1964.

So the use of conventions that we might view now as racist lasted well
beyond the first decade or so of the twentieth century, and that's the point
I was trying to make because the writer of the original email seemed rather
shocked at some of the titles.  I think another thing we can see is that the
language, at least that used in public, improved in describing people of
color even while other conventions survived.

Hal Vickery

-----Original Message-----
From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Ron L'Herault
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 1:59 PM
To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Horn Parts and Rags

Blacking up was not shameful in and of itself.  Much of it was theatrical
and that is all.  Think of clown make up, vivid white, big red lips.  Are
they racially motivated (anti-Caucasian)?  In theater/movies, parts were
played.  Masks were donned.  Make-up and disguises applied.  Jolson, Cantor,
and others were minstrels, actors, comedians, not necessarily racists.  We
see it in a racist light.   "Darktown Strutters Ball" is about a guy wanting
to dance with his girl.   It could have been in Germantown or Frenchtown
too.

Ron L

-----Original Message-----
From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Hal Vickery
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 1:21 AM
To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Horn Parts and Rags

You don't have to look too far back to see some pretty (at least to modern
eyes) disgusting things.  For example, "Coon songs" (and they weren't
referring to those furry animals with rings on their tails) were found in
record catalogs as late as the 1920s.  Some of them were pretty disgusting.
I found out about the UCSB cylinder restoration project on this list, and
among the titles I found from the first decade of the 20th Century was a
"Coon Song" by "Collins and Harlan" on the Edison label called N***** Loves
His Possum.  

I watched a 1934 James Cagney movie the other day in which Cagney goes AWOL
from his ship by blackening his face.  Irving Berlin put on a blackface
minstrel show in "This Is the Army" during World War II.  Al Jolson put on
blackface (as did Larry Parks) for "The Jolson Story" in the late '40s.

"Darktown Strutters Ball" isn't about the lights being out.  The original
lyrics to the verse of "Old Man River" (1927) began, "N*****s all work on
the Mississippi."  I remember we had old music of that in chorus that had
those original lyrics.  (God only knows how long they were in the school's
music library.)  Oh, and the part of Queenie in Show Boat was played by
"Aunt Jemima," aka Tess Gardella, who was definitely not an African
American.

Oh, the musical my school put on my senior year was Show Boat.  The cast was
all white, meaning a lot of kids had a lot of make up on, especially the
stevedores.  (And who can forget that Armstrong record "Dusky Stevedore"?
Or for that matter "Shine," which wasn't talking about the reflection off
his shoes.)

There is a lot of pretty shameful stuff if you look back at the history of
American entertainment.

Hal Vickery

-----Original Message-----
From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of
r.r.wheeler at att.net
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 11:59 PM
To: Steve Barbone; DJML
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Horn Parts and Rags

Steve and all,

Great listening on those cuts.  That should settle once and for all the
'horns on rags' question.  Quite a revelation looking at the 25 titles on
that CD as well.  The word 'darkie' appears in two titles, 'kinky' on
another and cut 24 is the "N----- Blues" by the Victor Military Band.  Yeah,
*that* 'N' word.

It has cut 19 as "The Memphis Blues, Or Mister Crump" by Prince's Band.  I
thought 'Mr. Crump' was the original title of "The St. Louis Blues".  W. C.
Handy originally wrote the tune as a campaign ditty for a local politician
by that name.

Best from Central Georgia,

Ron Wheeler

-------------- Original message from Steve Barbone
<barbonestreet at earthlink.net>: -------------- 


> Mike & Listmates: 
> 
> To hear Maple Leaf Rag as the US Marine Band, with horns, did it visit: 
> 
>
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000666Z5/103-0999372-2689420?v=glance&n=5

> 174 
> 
> Paste all of the URL into your browser if it doesn't work with a click. 
> There are also several other rags done by horns in big Military bands on 
> that album. 
> 
> Cheers, 
> Steve 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Dixielandjazz mailing list 
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com 
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz 
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