[Dixielandjazz] Guitar vs. Banjo

[Steve Barbone]

Hi Scott:

No controversy. This seems to have been an interesting thread so some people
on the list. I'm not disagreeing with you. Banjoes are louder.

The only reason I brought up the guitar neck to the banjo bottom is to show
what St Cyr played in addition to guitar. The definition of that instrument
is:  "GUITAR-BANJO also called banjo-guitar or banjitar. It has six strings
and is usually tuned just like a guitar. The instrument has always been
struggling with a bad reputation. Many "banjo purists" claim it isn't a real
banjo at all but just a bastardized guitar (ignoring the fact that many
great banjoists including Johnny St. Cyr - perhaps the greatest ever jazz
banjoist - used such an instrument)." You can see one at:

http://www.jazzbanjo.com/jbartist/artists/jstcyr.htm

Note also the discussion there about the importance of St Cyr's "bass lines"
to the early recordings of Jelly Roll and Louis.

But remember also, the thread was about "recording" of sound as a possible
reason why so many pre 1917 jazz band photos showed guitar/bass while so
many post 1917 bands on records for the next 10 years or so were banjo/tuba.
(the first jazz recording was made in 1917 by ODJB which used neither so it
wasn't their influence).

I think it was as much the sound wave configuration (vs. Guitar) of the
tenor banjo that made it more recordable as it was the loudness. Similar
also to why drummers played wood blocks on early records. Drums were
devilishly hard to record and even though the snare and bass drum are louder
than wood blocks, the wood blocks were easier to record with the acoustical
process back then. 

In a similar vein, if Bing Crosby, a baritone, had sung 30 years earlier
than he did, the early recording devices would not have picked up his voice
anywhere near good enough to make him the star that he finally became.
Loudness had nothing to do with it. His voice, and that of Double Bass and
guitar, were finally able to be recorded with some semblance of decent sound
only when the electrical recording process replaced the acoustic recording
process.

Electric recording was introduced circa 1925. It became the norm by a few
years later. It captured sound much better than the acoustic process because
it introduced microphones. Thus there was no more need to move instruments
around a huge room to get the right balance of sound. And you could record
lower pitched instruments and voices. With the invention of microphoned
electrical recording, musicians had a greater flexibility in the studio and
could set-up and record much in the same way that they performed on a stage.
For the first time, every instrument in a large orchestra could be recorded.
(including guitars, double basses, baritone singers, drums etc)

So, from the beginning of Jazz recordings say 1917 to about 1925, most bands
recorded with banjo and Tuba, rather than guitar and double bass. Then when
microphones were used instead of reverse megaphones to pick up the sound,
guitar and double bass came back into favor.

Cheers,
Steve Barbone

on 12/27/06 6:51 PM, Scott Anthony at santh at pacbell.net wrote:

> I didn't mean to start a big controversy, but a guitar neck married to a
> banjo "bottom" (better known as a body) is still a banjo, not a guitar. As
> such, it inherently has greater volume. If you could make a guitar top as
> thin as a banjo head, you'd probably have an instrument equally as loud -
> however, it wouldn't last very long - it would cave in as soon as you tuned
> it up.
> 
> The reason guitars could not be picked up in early recording is they were
> NOT LOUD ENOUGH. Banjos are LOUD, especially tenor banjos because they are
> high pitched.
> 
> As for Condon, did he not have at least a mic in front of him? If so, I
> would consider his guitar to be "amplified" if not what is now considered to
> be an "electric" guitar with a pickup.
> 
> All I can say is that banjos are louder and with less sustain than guitars,
> whether 4 or 6-string. The use of either depends on what kind of sound is
> desired. Before amplification, whether with or without a mic, you could
> always hear a banjo more than a guitar.
> 
> Scott Anthony