[Dixielandjazz] Who is playing OKOM?

Sun Aug 20 09:57:30 PDT 2006

> 2. American's didn't invent jazz. It's African and it's BLACK!
________________________________
I could have missed something but aren't almost all blacks who live in the 
U.S. also Americans?

I have never been to Africa but I can't recall a single tune either jazz, 
popular or classic that has come out of Africa although I'm sure there are 
some.  Now it seems to me that if Africa is where jazz originated you would 
think that there would still be a great jazz industry there.  The common 
belief is that the basic elements were there but it took the mixing with 
other American and European music to bring it to life.

It seems everyone wants to take credit for this art form and we have a 
national and international pissing contest.  Personally I don't care who 
invented it or where it lives now.LW

**************************************************
> I've heard it argued that Blacks are no longer interested in Dixieland 
> music and have moved on to more contemporary forms of jazz.  Could be a 
> fair amount of truth to that.
_______________________________________

I haven't heard every musician or group in St. Louis so there may be some 
out there but Since Singleton Palmer died I don't think there is a single 
Black musician playing trad jazz here and I have no idea where the black 
guys in his group are.  It's true, at least here, that Black musicians have 
very little to do with this music (OKOM), don't know the tunes and if they 
do, never play them.  As a group they have moved on musically which is a 
good thing.  That's not to say that they don't enjoy it as much as anyone 
else when it's played because they definitely do.

Now about the beer - It's all the urine of yeast.  Drink up.
Larry
St. Louis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Gunter" <jazzboard at hotmail.com>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 2:09 AM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Who is playing OKOM?

> Hi Listmates -
>
> Cees van den Heuvel sent me a most interesting e-mail which deserves some 
> consideration.
>
> What he said was:
>
> ---> Start Cees' e-mail
>
> To start: jazz is NOT an American art form. It's African and it's BLACK!
> All Americans and Europeans are just copying African art!
> In that way we are equal! To say it's invented in the U.S.A, is, and
> now I quote Bill, is BULL SHIT!
> At last I'm, triggered by Bill,leaving my politeness.
> The remarks about beer are nearly spot on, drinking Coors
> for instance is like drinking piss, which is only acceptable in
> SM-circumstances.
> Another item: the lack of black musicians at American Jazz
> festivals, will open up a can of worms beyond American imagination
>
> ---> End Cees' e-mail
>
> This basically boils down into three main concerns which Cees has:
>
> 1. American beer is inferior.
>
> 2. American's didn't invent jazz. It's African and it's BLACK!
>
> 3. Black musicians are not participating in American Jazz Festivals.
>
> Good observations all and certainly there are elements of truth in 
> everything Cees says.
>
> For example, his disdain for American beer is shared by many of us in the 
> U.S.A. who routinely order imported beer and pass up domestic beer when 
> we're out on the town. So no argument with Cees on that score.
>
> On point number two above . . . certainly nobody will dispute the great 
> contributions Blacks have made to the art form. Jazz owes a great debt to 
> past jazz musicians and to the Black culture in general.  But most of us 
> recognize there are a number of other influences besides Black culture 
> that have an impact on the nature of jazz. The energy and excitement of 
> the burgeoning industrial age, the influence of other art forms (martial 
> music, quadrilles, gospel music, folk songs, classical instrumentation 
> [reeds, brass, strings, etc.] popular music of the time [circa 1890's to 
> approx. 1940] the musical milieu in and around the south in general and 
> New Orleans in particular, ragtime music from such musicians as Scott 
> Joplin and others - all occurred in America's back yard.
>
> And yes . . . Cees is correct, I believe, in identifying Black musicians 
> as important sources of this new art form . . . but they were American 
> Blacks and Black/French American Creoles, along with quite a few whites, 
> who midwifed the birthing pangs of jazz.
>
> Lastly, on point number 3 above (Black's not participating in American 
> Jazz Festivals), I suppose it depends on which sort of jazz festivals you 
> mean.
>
> Most of what we're familiar with is DIXIELAND jazz.  Even the name of this 
> forum is "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" - and I agree that we are not 
> overloaded with Black musicians in this particular genre of jazz 
> (dixieland).
>
>
> And, to be realistic, dixieland jazz is truly dated and audiences are 
> steadily diminishing at American Dixieland Jazz Festivals.  Mainly they're 
> attended by aging white folks who are trying to keep alive the music of 
> their (my) youth.  Can't fault them for that . . . but, ultimately I think 
> those (our) dixieland jazz musicians are a dying breed.  Nevertheless, it 
> is OKOM (Our Kind Of Music) and we do what we can to keep it alive.
>
> Blacks, it would seem are to be found at the sorts of jazz festivals which 
> most of us are not interested in attending.  Furthermore, to make a pithy 
> observation here, it seem's like most of the black musical energy today is 
> being expended in something called "Rap" music which tends to be despised 
> by most of us who like dixieland.
>
> Rap is a total black (Eminem to the contrary nothwithstanding) idiom which 
> is brash, racist, and loaded with "in your face" attitude. They (Blacks) 
> even refer to much of it as "Gangsta Rap." I don't think contemporary 
> Blacks would consider Rap music successful if it didn't alienate old white 
> farts like you and me.
>
> So there you have it.
>
> Cees says:
>
> 1 American beer is inferior (I couldn't agree more).
>
> 2. American's didn't invent jazz - It's Black African (I agree in part, 
> but I don't think that's the whole story.)
>
> 3. Blacks don't attend American Jazz Festivals - (That's pretty obvious 
> and I agree with Cees. But on the other hand, those of us in the DJML 
> probably don't attend many Rap concerts.)
>
> Respectfully submitted,
>
> Bill "Just trying to help" Gunter
> jazzboard at hotmail.com
>
> ps. I really don't think I deserve Cees' criticism that I'm "impolite" (as 
> Cees said: "At last I'm, triggered by Bill,leaving my politeness.") I have 
> always endeavored to be courteous in my discourse including this one.
>
> bg
>
>
>
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