[Dixielandjazz] European Band not playing in America /AmericanBands not playing in America

Sat Apr 8 12:19:11 PDT 2006

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Larry Walton Entertainment - St. Louis <larrys.bands at charter.net>
 To: tcashwigg at aol.com; dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
 Sent: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:44:21 -0500
  Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] European Band not playing in America 
/AmericanBands not playing in America

 Tom: I totally hear what you are saying 

  The biggest problem that I have is that everyone wants a hundred 
dollar bill to do anything which instantly puts the band into the 
$700-$800 category other than that they almost won't come out of the 
woodwork and are not willing to do the work before the fact such as 
make those CD's. 

  ** Same thing exists almost every where Larry: I have the same 
situation, Trick is you have to play on or at events with large crowds, 
so you pick and choose the events, carefully, and then go ahead and Pay 
those guys their $100.00 but when they see you take in $3,000.00 or 
better from CD sales and ask for a cut simply hand them a bill for 
their portion of the production and manufacturing costs, and the 
advertising and promotion of the band and the CD products. They have 
already established their worth and demand it which is fine $100.00 
that's what the gig pays take it or leave it, NEXT?? We are in the 
Music business, not the Ego business. I called a guy once for a gig and 
he told me he didn't think I could afford to pay him what he was worth, 
I told him he was right and nobody could afford to pay him what he was 
worth, but I had a $100.00 Bill for him if he wanted the gig. :)) He 
took it and stayed with the band for about ten years, why because he 
was too lazy to go do all the work to run his own band and I was right 
NOBODY could afford to pay him or would pay him what he thought he was 
worth.

  I don't know how much time others take to cut a CD and I'm sure that 
the time varies widely but I would want at least three takes on a tune 
which could take at least a half hour so that would be about six hours 
minimum to make a CD of 12 tunes unless the guys were good enough to 
get it in one take. This is possible if the band is working all the 
time together but most groups here just don't. I don't think the 
Indians from S.A. even think about this, they just do it as part of 
being musicians in business. Their rehearsals are on the street corner. 
I think (I don't know) that they have a different perspective to 
professional music than we do. 

  *** The Indians do what we all dream about doing, Eat Sleep and Play 
Music, it is their DAY GIG. It is also their JOB so they treat it like 
one and make a very good living at doing it with no Boss, no union 
telling them how and where and what to do.

  I have seen and enjoyed those various groups and almost always buy a 
CD from them. There is one guy roaming the crowd selling CD's while the 
group performs. Everyone wants the guaranteed money. Over the years I 
have called guys many times and the first thing that comes out of their 
mouths is how much does it pay? I have called piano players who flat 
out want $200 a gig. (the very reason why I often use a computer for 
the rhythm section) 

  *** Many musicians particularly sidemen have no idea or concept of 
what is involved in being a band leader and running it like a business 
so that is can grow and remain in business to employ them and pay them. 
Most do not want to commit to anything long term, because they are 
probably afraid of success, and or simply not willing to treat it as 
WORK but more as a FUN thing to do with more emphasis on the FUN as in 
Booze, Women, and getting away from the Missus and the kids.

  By the way I don't think they are paying ASCAP or anyone else for 
those tracks and they don't seem to mind being hassled by the police 
who mostly ignore them. They set up in a public place, play for an hour 
or two, sell a bunch of CD's and split or they hook up with the local 
fairs, pay a fee and have at it. 

  *** They are all playing their own compositions and Traditional Andes 
Folk music, so they have no need for ASCAP or anyone else, and since 
they are collecting retail prices they are paying themselves all the 
royalties that are collected. In other words they are beating the HELL 
out of the SYSTEM.

  As an aside, I have run into "my wife doesn't want me to play" (name 
the night) with three drummers straight! This is a whole new thread. 

  *** Well I never had my wife EVER say that to me, Perhaps they have 
wives who will pay them to stay home and have Sex :))
 rather than let them go play music and make money.

  Since I have been playing OKOM gigs the first thing they want to know 
is who is on the gig followed very quickly by how much does it pay. 
Both questions have to be answered right or no dice. Some of these guys 
are very picky and some guys hate each other and others will only play 
if certain others are on the job. How the hell can you book that way? 

  *** I run into the same situation weekly, and when a guys tells me he 
won't play if that guy is on the gig, guess who doesn't get called for 
another gig, and I don't care who the Hell he is, he does not run this 
Band I do and he works for the Band, if he does not like it he can go 
 from his own band and book his own gigs and put up with all the guys 
like him. I have a product to sell and a sound to deliver with or 
without them in the lineup. There are a lot more unemployed musicians 
than there are employed ones, but some guys just don't understand that. 
And will not put ANYTHING into making a band worth booking. They have 
never learned that just being a musician with some talent is not really 
very important at all, to most folks, we are a nickel a dozen these 
days mostly because of that kind of player. They have cheapened the 
image of professionals and deteriorated the industry to it's current 
pitiful level for professional players. These guys have all become 
"ALL- STARS" and "Legends in their own Minds"

  I think that the only reason we don't have any street entertainment 
here is because the city's in their wisdom years ago passed laws 
against it. This got the Gypsy's and blind beggars with their 
accordions and white cups off the street but it also kept other groups 
 from performing too. I only know of one city (University City) in St. 
Louis County that allows it. I really don't know what their criteria is 
but I'm sure there are permits etc. They pride themselves on having a 
diversified artsy community but the rest of the cities (@150) don't 
allow it unless you are hired by a business, mall or get a merchant's 
license and other permits which is very difficult. We typically don't 
allow any street vendors of any kind in St. Louis city and county. So 
CD sales and things like that are verboten. 

  ***Yep! I hear you ?? In the city of Walnut Creek, some city 
supervisors years ago in their most imminent wisdom passed an ordinance 
forbidding kissing anyone in the armpit in Public and they have never 
stopped passing ordinances since, we used to have to get an 
entertainers permit from the County just to play live music in the 
city. And while most cities do require permits, it is more so they can 
collect fees than anything else, just another Tax to support their own 
existence to harass the citizens and keep the likes of sex crazed, drug 
addict drunken musicians in their rightful place to protect the public 
 from being exposed to them at all. The only way to beat these idiots is 
to go run for office and or get yourself appointed to boards and 
committees etc. and yell and scream at the meetings until the dumb 
asses listen to you and allow you to open some doors and stage areas.

There is no shortage of stupid well meaning folks in this world that 
are often very shortsighted, most of them it seems can be found working 
for Government agencies and city councils etc.   How do they GET THOSE 
POSITION ??  :))  Many of them start out by volunteering and then get 
into a position of power to create havoc and more often than not cause 
more problems than those that they manage to fix.

  Tell them Music soothes savage beasts and such and that It is a known 
fact that with "Good Happy Music in the streets" "Crime Goes Down" 
since people are too busy having fun they are in more sociable moods 
and get along better. :))

  All things conspire against the musician and I am most sorry to say is 
self generated by the musicians themselves. 

 *** Certainly NO Argument with that statement :)) Sadly

  Keep on keepin' on those of us that do always find good work. When you 
keep running into those folks who "Just Say NO" slap them up beside the 
head and knock some sense into them. But do it gently so they don't sue 
you for assault and such.

 Cheers,

 Tom

 So, sadly, it is difficult in St. Louis to take it to the people. 
 Larry 
 St. Louis 
 ----- Original Message ----- From: <tcashwigg at aol.com> 
 To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com> 
 Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 6:15 PM 
  Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] European Band not playing in America 
/AmericanBands not playing in America 

 Larry Is absolutely correct folks: 

 Those Lads have learned the fine art of "taking it to the people" and 
 do not even seek Paid gigs, and therefore are not taking any work away 
 from any USA or European musicians. They play Farmer's Markets Flea 
 Markets, Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco, Monterey, Santa Barbara, 
 Long Beach, and any other Tourist Attraction they can find. 
 Community and City sponsored events etc. They normally show up about 
 noon and play 45 minute sets until about 6:00 p.m. or so selling 
 merchandise to a new crowd every set. 

  I had two of these groups work with me for five years in California 
and 
 they both played about 200 days a year ( note I said Days) not clubs. 
    I did their tax returns for years and they sold between $190,000.00 
& 
 $225,000.00 a year worth of Cassettes and CDs. Then they moved on to 
 Colorado, and Florida and brought tow more groups from Peru to replace 
 them in California, they do the same all over Europe as well. 

  Yes if Dixieland Bands would do the same they would not only sell a 
ton 
 of product, but they would also get wedding gigs, and private parties 
 etc. that paid well too. It's the best Advertising and promotion you 
 can get, and you can get local papers to write stories about you with 
 photos, and local Cable Tv folks to shoot video and air it on local 
 stations, not to mention the occasional exposure you can get form a 
 major Television station. 

 What does it cost you for all that FREE Promotion and Publicity ?? 
 About as much time as you spend or at least should spend for a 
 rehearsal day, :)) Just do it in front of an audience and let them 
 contribute to your well being. If nobody ever sees or hears you but 
 the little circle you play for things will never get any better or 
 bigger for your act. But for some acts that is what they actually 
 want. To each their own method of poisoning :)) 

 Cheers, 

 Tom Wiggins 

 -----Original Message----- 
  From: Larry Walton Entertainment - St. Louis 
<larrys.bands at charter.net> 
 To: Steve barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>; 
 dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com 
 Sent: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 13:41:19 -0500 
 Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] European Band not playing in America / 
 AmericanBands not playing in America 

   Post script: Occasionally we are inundated by Indians from South 
 America and their drums and flutes. They sell lots of CD's standing in 
 the middle of malls and other places. Most have a pretty good act and 
 seem to do well but then again their standards might not be as high. 

  Last summer I was in Frankfort and saw several groups performing on 
 the street and doing pretty well selling CD's but again they had a 
 pretty good act and were worth the price of a CD. (15 Euro). I would 
 think that a Dixie group with a stack of CD's would do very well even 
 without a club Gig. I'm sure that it's not all that simple but looked 
  do able and would certainly make a couple of weeks vacation in Europe 
a 
 lot cheaper for a band so inclined. 

 Larry Walton 
 St. Louis. 
  ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve barbone" 
 <barbonestreet at earthlink.net> 
 To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com> 
 Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 1:48 PM 
  Subject: [Dixielandjazz] European Band not playing in America / 
 AmericanBands not playing in America 

 > "Judy Eames" <jude at judyeames.co.uk> wrote (polite snip) 
 > 
 >> Steve Barbone asked why a European band wasn't playing in America. 
 > 
  > Actually, that's not what I asked. I asked why an American Band, 
 made up > of 
  > New Orleans musicians was successfully touring Europe and NOT 
 touring in 
   > their own home country, given all of the OKOM Festivals we have 
over 
 here 
  > and the declared wish of many Americans to help New Orleans 
 musicians. 
 > 
 > I suspect they do not tour here because: 
 > 
 > 1) They were not asked to do so. or 
 > 
 > 2) They get better pay in Europe. or 
 > 
  > 3) We Americans pay a lot of lip service to helping New Orleans 
 musicians 
  > but the idea of actually hiring them to play seems somehow not to 
 have 
 > occurred to many of the music mavens in the US of A. 
 > 
  > Other than that, I sympathize with the travel problems of Europeans 
 and 
  > others trying to enter and play some gigs here. But as others have 
 said, 
  > there are many ways to get it done. Last month, for example, New 
 York City 
 > had a large contingent of Italian Jazz Musicians gigging there. etc. 
 > 
 > Cheers, 
 > Steve 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________ 
 > Dixielandjazz mailing list 
 > Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com 
 > http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz 
 > 
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