[Dixielandjazz] Re: "South"

[dingle at baldwin-net.com]

Bill Haesler wrote:

>>How did Moten's "South" come into the standard Dixieland repertoire?<
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>Dear David,
>Well now! How did you know that I would be sucked in on this one?
>"South" was recorded chronologically as follows:
>Bennie Moten  29 Nov 1924
>Bennie Moten  7 Sept 1928
>Mike Riley  26 Sept 1935
>Hot Lips Page  11 Nov 1940
>Woody Herman  13 Feb 1941
>Kid Ory  3 Aug 1944
>Lu Watters  6 May 1946 (a 1942 version remains unissued).
>George Webb (UK)  9 Nov 1946
>Graeme Bell (Australia)  11 April 1947
>Count Basie  22-23 May 1947
>Plus another 200 or so, up to the present day!
>To resolve your query, I decided to telephone and ask one of the above
>sources, Graeme Bell (my old mate of nearly 60 years).
>His immediate reply was that they would have referred to the 1928 Bennie
>Moten record. In Melbourne in those days a lawyer, William H (Bill) Miller,
>was the jazz guru, with all the records one needed to know about, plus a few
>you would never have known about unless you asked him. Bill had quite a few
>of the Moten Victor 78s in his collection.
>[I will digress for a moment to say that Bill Miller was my main jazz mentor
>in the mid 1940s, as he was to the Graeme Bell band. He was an early editor
>of the magazine 'Jazz Notes' and founder of another mag 'Australian Jazz
>Quarterly', which he handed over to me in late 1954.]
>When I suggested to Graeme (ninety-one not out and still performing) that
>his band may have heard the newly released Watters' version he said that
>they (the band) were only vaguely aware of the Lu Watters group prior to
>their triumphant tour through Czechoslovakia, France and Britain in 1947-48.
>Watters was therefore not an influence on the Bells at this time.
>The Webb record uses the same slowdown in the last chorus as the Woody
>Herman, pointing to a knowledge of this 1941 record.
>The Ory band record on Crescent may have influenced the Americans, but we
>here in Oz did not hear it until after the popular Bell 78. Which,
>incidentally, sold well over 20,000 copies in Australia.
>>From 1947-47 the tune then became part of the traditional jazz repertoire.
>I therefore submit that that "South" was introduced independently to the
>jazz revival from separate sources.
>To the US West Coast by Lu Watters and Kid Ory, to Australia and Europe by
>the Graeme Bell Dixieland Band and to Britain by the George Webb and Graeme
>Bell bands.
>Another rendition to knock us out a little later was the Pete Dailey Capitol
>78 from 22 March 1949. A new take on the tune and a great record.
>Now David, you may be able to answer this one.
>Pete Dailey recorded a follow-up tune called "North" for Capitol on 3 March
>1952 .
>Someone, many years ago, told me that it was based musically on "South" - in
>reverse. The chords played backwards with a melody variation made to fit.
>My musical knowledge isn't good enough to confirm this, although it is
>certainly based on "South". Any thoughts?
>While writing this reply I played all of the early versions mentioned above
>(except the Mike Riley, which I do not have).
>As a matter of interest, the Lips Page and Basie versions do not use the
>instrumental breaks present on both Moten records. Herman, Ory, Bell,
>Watters and Webb do. A pattern, followed from then on, by most others
>including Pete Dailey, the Firehouse Five + Two and Bob Scobey.
>You say that Anderson gives a 1936 date for the lyrics of "South". (Not in
>my copy of the index). I wonder where this date came from?
>The Bob Scobey rendition (6 Nov 1951), with vocal by Clancy Hayes, is the
>first, chronologically, to include the words. This Good Time Jazz record
>adds a 'Ray Charles' to the Benie Moten-Thamaon Hayes composer credit, which
>implies that he may be the lyricist.
>Another thread?
>Kind regards,
>Bill. 
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A small  footnote to the above: ThePete daily side arrangement was by 
Rosey McHargue. Just giving credit where credit due. Roseyt also wrote 
the  very popular "I want to Linger" chart for Dailey.
Don Ingle