[Dixielandjazz] More on the Circle of Fifths

[Larry Walton Entertainment]

That's a great explanation but there is a catch and that's frets.  The 
frets are set up on the mechanical principals you mentioned but we just 
don't hear that way.  Some manufacturers have tweaked the fret location 
to sound to us to be better in tune and then they give us the individual 
tuning bars on the bridge which effect the upper octave more than the 
lower so that as the guitar player goes up the neck that octave can be 
tweaked a little more than the lower octave.  Unfortunately guitar 
players don't generally know this and in effect think their guitars are 
"tuned at the factory".  Then factor in different weights of strings 
that effect the instrument.  As strings get older they lose their 
resonance due to stretching, crud and rust build up all of which effects 
the tuning of the instrument.

The guitar so far as tuning is concerned is almost like a fluid.  Things 
are constantly changing.  Now factor in temperature and humidity 
changes.  With all that going on it's a wonder that any of them play in 
tune at all which brings me full circle to my original statement that 
most guitar players play out of tune.

A guitar player needs to really know what he's doing and just plugging 
into a tuner just isn't enough.
Larry Walton
St. Louis

Talegatorz at aol.com wrote:
> Well John, you've started a great thread.
>
> In answer to your original question: The first tone is called # 1. Therefore 
> C=1
> D=2, E=3, F=4 and G=5. It is the fifth tone. Call G #1 and count to five 
> again and we have D and so on.
>  
> I now quote from Ear Training and Sight Singing by George A. Wedge c.1921.
>  
> "A key is a family of tones. These are all derived from one tone, the head of 
> the family, called a Key -Tone. If a vibrating string gives the pitch of C, 
> and we wish to find a tone most nearly related in vibration, but differing in 
> pitch, we would first divide the string into halves and set either half in 
> vibration. Either segment vibrates twice as fast and gives the pitch of C, but one 
> octave higher. Next try dividing the the string C into thirds and set the 
> two-thirds length into vibration. This gives the pitch of G or the fifth tone 
> above C. This fifth tone is the most nearly related tone, differing in pitch, to 
> the fundamental."
> "In the same way the next nearly related will be two thirds of G or a fifth 
> above G, which is D, the next a fifth above D, which is A, the next a fifth 
> above A, or E: next a fifth above E, or B." 
>        "Conversely, if D is two thirds of G and G is two thirds of C, C must 
> be two thirds of a tone a fifth below, or the tone of  F."
>        "The most comprehensive arrangement of these key tones is shown upon a 
> clock face, placing C at twelve o'clock, each new sharp key a hour to the 
> right and each new flat key an hour to the left, The hour at which the key occurs 
> gives the number of sharps and flats in the signature, A is at three o'clock 
> (halfway), and has three sharps in its signature; Eb is halfway on the other 
> side and has three flats..."
>
>  That so many get along just fine without this bit of knowlege could be 
> because it is based upon one of the core principle of a string's vibration and how 
> its length detirmines the tone. 
> I find that some stringed instruments are easily tunable with electronics and 
> some are not. Disregarding poor set up, worn strings or a warped neck, could 
> this be because loose manufacturing tolerences result in inconsistent 
> distances between the fretting?
> Tuning the open strings electronically does not always translate to tuned 
> notes up the neck. Know your instrument.
>
> So, everyone, get out your guitars, tuners and tape measures and have a ball. 
> I hope this has added to our interest and confusion.
>
> Gus Bloch
> _______________________________________________
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>