[Dixielandjazz] Shaw & Goodman

Bob Romans cellblk7 at comcast.net
Sat Jan 1 19:06:06 PST 2005

Jimmy Dorsey...spent the last set sitting in a booth  with my girlfriend and 
I at the Rainbow Ballroom in Denver, 1950. His band played the last set 
without him, he sat there asking us questions about out lives, our music, 
and gave us both a hug before we left. His brother, Tommy, was a real jerk 
to me earlier that year when I asked him for an autograph. Shorty Sherock 
was on trumpet/cornet, I remember!
Warm regards,
Bob Romans
Cell Block 7 Jazz Band
1617 Lakeshore Dr.
Lodi, Ca. 95242
Cell 209-747-1148
Because I play trumpet, I envy no man!
"Most people hate the taste of
 beer---to begin with. It is, however.
a prejudice many people have been
able to overcome".
Winston. Churchill!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Broadie" <rbroadie at dc.rr.com>
To: "Steve barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>; "DJML" 
<dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Shaw & Goodman

> In personal conversations with Shaw, Artie said his focus was on the 
> gestalt - the whole being greater than the some of the parts. His focus, 
> in other words, was on the final sound of the orchestra.  Shaw maintained 
> that Goodman's focus was far more on the clarinet and the music he could 
> produce on it.  To Shaw, BG's band was incidental as if to be the means 
> that allowed BG to display his talents on clarinet.
> Ellington  always claimed that his instrument was his orchestra and 
> described himself as "the piano player" in a self-effacing manner.  While 
> Shaw's comments were similar to Ellington, I would never describe Artie as 
> being "self-effacing."
> As to who was or wasn't a jerk, I would never wish either Shaw or Goodman 
> to have been my best friend.  Same with Buddy Rich, Tommy Dorsey or Glenn 
> Miller.  There were a lot of great band leaders who were not necessarily 
> the nicest of people.  Perhaps, if they were nicer people, their bands 
> wouldn't have been as successful.
> Anyone want to discuss who the good and bad guys were from that era? 
> Might make an interesting thread.  Then again, what do I know.  Woody 
> Herman used to be my financial advisor.
> Dick Broadie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
> To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 1:57 PM
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Shaw & Goodman
>>I think perhaps some folks on the DJML quite misunderstand what Shaw was
>> talking about when he said Goodman played Clarinet and he (Shaw) played
>> music. No point getting hung up on the semantics of the word "play". No
>> point in assuming that Shaw's comments were a cheap shot at Goodman's
>> expense, when they were not. Shaw was merely pointing out how he and 
>> Goodman
>> viewed the clarinet. Perhaps the quote, a short one out of a broader
>> context, was an error on my part. The entire two chapters on Shaw should 
>> be
>> read for a fuller understanding of the man, his music and his psyche. As
>> should Shaw's autobiography be read.
>> Simply stated, some folks view the axe primarily as a communication 
>> device.
>> E.G. Shaw or Pee Wee Russell. Their musical work speaks with all the 
>> emotion
>> of a expert communicator.
>> Other folks do not view the axe as a communication device, but rather as 
>> an
>> instrument to be conquered or mastered. Their primary goal is to play it
>> perfectly. E.G. Goodman, or Eddie Daniels. They play beautifully, but do
>> not, to my ears at least, seem to have that emotion of a great 
>> communicator.
>> When listening to Shaw, and then Goodman the differences are apparent. 
>> Same
>> if one listens to Daniels and then DeFranco. DeFranco communicates with, 
>> and
>> Daniels masters, the instrument.
>> Pee Wee Russell? A great communicator. Just ask Kenny Davern who is also 
>> one
>> of the great communicators on the axe as well as one who has pretty well
>> mastered it.
>> There are listeners who respond to one or the other approach for various
>> reasons. You pay your money and you take your choice. Or you appreciate 
>> both
>> for what they do.
>> Further examination of Sudhalter's Book will give the reader more insight 
>> on
>> these approaches to musicianship. Especially Davern's take on Pee Wee
>> Russell in the chapter on Pee Wee, and more reading of the two chapters 
>> on
>> Artie Shaw. (I cite the book so much only because I think many list mates
>> have it)
>> Bottom line? I plead with list mates not to draw large inferences from 
>> short
>> quotes (Shaw) that were obtained by an interviewer (Sudhalter), but 
>> rather
>> to seek out the entire context.
>> Cheers,
>> Steve Barbone
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