[Dixielandjazz] More Ramblings about Ellington

[Brian Towers]

it is true that,  in later years at any rate, Ellington did not think of his
music as  "jazz" but then, neither did Bolden.  Yet today both are
acknowledged as key trail-blazers in jazz.
True he was a genius but he was not above "nicking" some-one else's jazz
tune, for example a big chunk of King Oliver's 1923 composition "Camp
Meeting Blues" turns up in 1927 as an Ellington/Miley/Jackson piece entitled
"Creole Love Call"!

There is a great photo of the 1926 Duke Ellington band and it sure looks
like what most of us would call a classic traditional jazz band!  Sonny
Greer has a huge bass drum, Chinese tom-tom, snare and a single cymbal - (no
hi-hat)
Charlie Irvis is on trombone; Otto Hardwicke - clarinet; Fred Guy - banjo;
Bubber Miley - trumpet and the Duke on piano.

I think we have to conclude that Ellington was influenced by the early New
Orleans jazz bands to some extent. How could he not be, with New Orleans
greats like Wellman Braud (bass) Barney Bigard (clarinet) Rudy Jackson
(saxes) and Lonnie Johnson (guitar) in his band in the early days and later?
The first three guys were all with King Oliver before joining Ellington. I
have no trouble hearing  strong  traditional New Orleans influences in those
wonderful early Ellington recordings!

Steve makes mention of that "Jungle Sound"  As a matter of interest, that
sound was in existence before Ellington.  This is according to Elmer
Snowden, banjoist/guitarist and one-time leader of "The Washingtonians".
This is credible because both Bubber Miley and Charlie Irvis were already in
the Washingtonians during Snowden's reign, before Ellington took over as
leader in 1924.

He was a capable pianist, though not a great one.  His early influences were
ragtime and then, when he came to New York, the great stride pianists of
that city.  I think Ellington's strongest talent was his ability to adapt
the considerable and individual skills of his sidemen and weave their output
into those wonderful jazz recordings.   In another hundred years they will
still sound good!

In conclusion,  it is interesting to conjecture how jazz might have
developed, had King Oliver accepted, instead of declining, that residency at
the New York Cotton club in 1927!  Would Duke have found somewhere else to
develop his craft? Probably!
Cheers,
Brian Towers
Toronto.


Steve wrote:

> RE: Ellington - Traditional?
>
> Yes, I suppose certain of Ellington's work were borrowed by Traditional
Jazz
> Bands. Mood Indigo, for example. But when he played it I would be hard
> pressed to call it Traditional Jazz in the context that most people use
the
> word traditional. The horn voicing was anything but trad jazz.
>
> Ellington was a genius musician. His bands were a lot more than just
> "Traditional", or just "Jazz" or just "Classical". To try and put him into
a
> neat category such as the above if folly as I hear it. And attempts by
> others to categorize him were distasteful to him, all of his life.
>
> Naturally, all of us who play jazz, play some Ellington. Man you have to
go
> "Ducal" once in a while to speak the language.
>
> But I hear him as a unique musician. Other bands of the day used stock
> arrangements. He created his own. That's hardly traditional. He wrote much
> of the material they played. That's hardly Traditional. Trad bands played
> the usual pop songs plus the tried and true war-horse tunes. Ellington
> rarely featured them.
>
> What he himself wrote about the 1920s-30s Ellington bands was: "Our aim as
a
> dance orchestra (yes DANCE ORCHESTRA) is not so much to reproduce 'hot' or
> 'jazz' music as to describe emotions, moods and activities which have a
wide
> range."
>
> And Sonny Greer was hardly a "traditional" drummer. ;-) VBG.
>
> When Ellington got the Cotton Club gig in 1927, the mobsters who ran the
> joint first thought that his music was "too weird". His so called "jungle
> music" was hardly traditional.
>
> Leopold Stokowski once asked him what he was "striving for in music."
>
> Duke's reply: "I am trying to express American music as I hear it and know
> it." He never saw himself as a jazz musician/jazz composer, why then,
should
> we? He wanted to sound like himself and he succeeded.
>
> Ellington's 1927 dance orchestra was compared to Paul Whiteman, Fletcher
> Henderson, Mal Hallett, Vincent Lopez et al, in reviews, not to
"traditional
> jazz bands" by the public or the media. (as we commonly use the term)
>
> So if a traditional jazz band plays some Ellington, whether they realize
it
> or not, are they not also departing from tradition?
>
> There are numerous books about Ellington. List mates who have not read
them
> might be interested to read "Beyond Category" by John Edward Hasse, (Simon
> and Schuster 1993, and/or "The Duke Ellington Reader" edited by Mark
Tucker,
> Oxford University Press 1993.
>
>
> RE:"It don't mean a thing" quote.
>
> No, it was not Bill Basie, it was Ellington per the original post. Duke is
> credited with writing the tune circa 1932.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>