[Dixielandjazz] Re: What is "traditional Jazz"

[Steve barbone]

on 9/7/04 9:26 AM, dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com at
dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com wrote:

> Steve wrote:
> What is "The traditional way'? What style within OKOM shall we freeze and
> call "traditional"? In drumming, Baby Dodds? Then what about Sparbaro? We
> all love to quote Ellington's "It don't mean a thing" etc., but he evolved
> later and was never traditional in any sense of the word.>>
> 
> Mop answered: 
> In any discussion of the term "traditional" in jazz, I find it very useful
> to refer to the early 20th century New Orleans sound and repertoire. One
> would do well to go back and review the late 20s and early 30s Ellington
> records. A very key sideman was Wellman Braud, a New Orleanian directly in
> the traditional New Orleans slap bass style that came out of Bill Johnson,
> developed by Al Morgan, Pops Foster, and other New Orleans men. To my ear,
> the interplay between Braud and the rest of the Ellington rhythm section
> reeks of New Orleans, especially the Armstrong Hot 7's.
>  
> Johnny Hodges was a student of New Orleanian Sidney Bechet, whose influence
> is clearly heard in his alto sax playing. Many of the tunes, although
> containing much highly original composing and arranging by Ellington
> himself, are based on New Orleans repertoire. For example, "East St. Louis
> Toodle-oo" major key section is based on "I Wish I Could Shimmy Like My
> Sister Kate," originally by Armstrong and Piron.
>  
> So, Steve, from a New Orleans point of view, your statement goes too far.
> Perhaps you would like to re-think it?

Hi Mop & List mates:

No, don't want to re think it. My meaning is clear. In no way could one
describe Duke Ellington's Band as a "Traditional Jazz Band", or a New
Orleans Jazz Band, or even a Jazz Band, or a Classical Music Orchestra. etc.
He would have probably described it as an American Music Orchestra.

Sure he and his players were influenced by New Orleans music. ALL
jazz/dance/pop musicians in those days were directly influenced by the New
Orleans musicians. How could one not be? That did not make them all
traditional jazz players. Any more than "East St. Louis Toodle-oo" is a
traditional jazz song because a section borrows from "Sister Kate."

All jazz men today are indirectly influenced by the New Orleans musicians.
But to describe them as "Traditional" bands or players because of that would
be a stretch.

It would be like calling the band in which you play, a traditional jazz
band. True some of the time, and not true some of the time. Once again, as I
stated in my post, which you modestly left out, Cullum's band as well as
Ellington's is "beyond category". Trite, hackneyed words by me, borrowed
from John Hasse, but still, quite true.

Cheers,
Steve Barbone