[Dixielandjazz] What is "traditional?"

[john petters]

> Here is how I would define "traditional jazz:" a band that is playing in a
style directly in or derived from New Orleans models from the first quarter
of the 20th century, characterized by highly syncopated, swinging and
improvised melodies and rhythms, or in a style of a "loose," relaxed
rhythmic improvisation. Elements of traditional jazz thus defined are
present in a wide range of interwar entertainment products and in fact came
>to dominate pop culture by the end of WWII.

I'd say that about sums it up Don

John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of mophandl
Sent: 07 September 2004 13:44
To: DJML
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] What is "traditional?"

Steve wrote:

 

<<What is "The traditional way'? What style within OKOM shall we freeze and
call "traditional"? In drumming, Baby Dodds? Then what about Sparbaro? We
all love to quote Ellington's "It don't mean a thing" etc., but he evolved
later and was never traditional in any sense of the word.>>

 

In any discussion of the term "traditional" in jazz, I find it very useful
to refer to the early 20th century New Orleans sound and repertoire. One
would do well to go back and review the late 20s and early 30s Ellington
records. A very key sideman was Wellman Braud, a New Orleanian directly in
the traditional New Orleans slap bass style that came out of Bill Johnson,
developed by Al Morgan, Pops Foster, and other New Orleans men. To my ear,
the interplay between Braud and the rest of the Ellington rhythm section
reeks of New Orleans, especially the Armstrong Hot 7's. 

 

Johnny Hodges was a student of New Orleanian Sidney Bechet, whose influence
is clearly heard in his alto sax playing. Many of the tunes, although
containing much highly original composing and arranging by Ellington
himself, are based on New Orleans repertoire. For example, "East St. Louis
Toodle-oo" major key section is based on "I Wish I Could Shimmy Like My
Sister Kate," originally by Armstrong and Piron. 

 

So, Steve, from a New Orleans point of view, your statement goes too far.
Perhaps you would like to re-think it?

 

<<And as you know, much "traditional" jazz both then and now does not
swing.>>

 

One can only conclude that you are calling "traditional" the merely old,
peppy, "jazzy" vo-do-de-o-do stuff, some of which indeed does not and could
not swing. 

 

I finally broke down this year and got an Apple iPod. Now, while exercising
and driving, I'm finally able to get deep into my MP3 collection of Rich
Conaty's "Big Broadcast" archives, of which I have about 3 year's worth. I
have been getting an education from Rich about what people really listened
to back in the period between the world wars. Rich plays it all-as he says,
"pop AND jazz for the old and old at heart. There's no time like the past."
(You can hear recent shows on the WFUV website at www.wfuv.org
<http://www.wfuv.org/> .)

 

Here's what I come up with. 

 

American taste in pop music evolved very rapidly in the interwar period,
just as it has in more recent times. American pop started out the period
still very much in thrall to European rhythm: staccato, on-the-beat, and
stiff, kind of like a polka. The only syncopated figures were over the bar
line, as in Stephen Foster tunes and Ragtime. European operatic singing
styles dominated, especially the male voice, which was still high-pitched
with a very fast vibrato, like an Irish tenor. 

 

Then Armstrong blew all this away in the 20s, but not all at once. Bing
Crosby transmitted a more swinging, masculine, true jazz crooning style
which was widely emulated. ODJB's style from New Orleans seeped into white
jazz groups, as did Oliver and Armstrong in Chicago. New Orleans elements
gradually found their way into pop music, but the interwar period records
show that there were many variations and gradations of swing feeling
co-existing. Some groups swung 100% of the time (Armstrong, Oliver,
Henderson, NORK, Wolverines, etc.), some swung a little and only on some
choruses (Whiteman with Bix), and some did not swing at all and were not
meant to (we don't remember many of their names today for good reason, but
you know them when you hear them). The reason Rich plays all of them is that
they were POPULAR, they all had their audiences. He is re-creating the
actual musical atmosphere that Americans lived in back then, and I find it
absolutely fascinating. 

 

(One caveat: it's a broadcast of 78 rpm records, something that did not
exist back then. Radio was live, and transcriptions and spin shows were
common only later in the '40s.)

 

Rich maintains that there was much less a separation in the audience back
then, that everyone (of all ages, social strata) listened to and liked, or
at least tolerated, everything that came through the new medium of radio.
Writers and performers of the era were apparently acutely aware of the
dichotomy (dialectic?) between European and American (sometimes designated
as "Sweet" and "Hot") elements-it shows up in Gershwin scores like the movie
"Royal Wedding" with Fred Astaire, or in Judy Garland's early movie
appearance with Deanna Durbin. The entire career of George Gershwin can be
seen as an attempt at synthesis between American and European music.

 

My guess is that as we move from the post-WWI years to about 1940, more and
more kids started to prefer swing and felt the older, non-swinging "sweet"
style to be identified with their parents. Music magazines contributed to
the awareness by putting bands into separate Sweet and Hot categories in
their polls. By the time WWII ended, the audience for Hot (Goodman, Dorseys,
Shaw, Basie) was huge, and Sweet never recovered. I guess the 50s had their
Sweet and Hot analogues: think of Pat Boone and Fats Domino (again, a New
Orleanian). 

 

 

Don Mopsick

Riverwalk Webmaster and Bass Driver

www.riverwalk.org

www.landing.com

 



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