Stephen Barbone barbonestreet at earthlink.net
Sat Mar 13 10:37:50 PST 2004

Jazzjerry at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 13/3/04 14:20:03, barbonestreet at earthlink.net writes:
> << Lincoln Center is, arguably, the number one
> influence in Jazz today. >>
> Maybe in America but to most of the jazz fans I know in this country
> 'Lincoln' either denotes a city in Loncolnshire with a very nice cathedral at the top
> of a hill and a nice 'centre' of shops at the bottom of the hill or some
> American President who had a trip to the theatre ruined by some guy with the same
> surname as the fellow who started the Salvation Army.

Yes, of course, that is why I said "arguably". But I would also think that in the UK, jazz
fans know what Lincoln Center and the Lincoln Center Jazz Band is, as well as who Wynton
Marsalis is. Did they not watch the 19 hour Ken Burns TV show on Jazz a couple of years
ago, which so prominently featured that triumvirate?

> Jazz today is far too diverse a music for any one thing to have undue
> influence and after all the musicians at this concert were only following the
> influence of Jelly Roll Morton and others back in the old days. Even Kid Thomas
> Valentine and others in the New Orleans Revival used strong Latin-American
> influences.

Yes, of course. "Undue influence" and "number one influence", are however, two different
things. Regarding "number one influence" one could certainly debate that Lincoln Center
has much more influence on Jazz today than JRM and all of the Latin influenced trad
players combined, far as audience recognition is concerned, no?  And the Afro-Cuban Jazz
of Dizzy Gillespie, Chano Pozo, Mario Bauza et al while it speaks to the fact that they
understood the roots, also was much more prominently Latin jazz than the "Spanish Tinge"
of trad jazz.

Who does LCJB follow? Well, if we go back to the very beginning, one could argue that they
follow the influence of Buddy Bolden. Yet most folks would probably have a hard time
thinking that Buddy Bolden is "arguably the number one influence in jazz today", as stated
about Lincoln Center in the original post. Rankings are always subject to debate. Lincoln
Center, not the number one influence in Jazz today?  OK, put forth a debate as to who or
what is?

> Can I suggest that a listen to the traditional beguine music of the
> Caribbean, especially Martinique, particularly the clarinet playing might suggest where
> the likes of Emile Barnes, Israel Gorman, Steve Angrum and other so-called
> 'primitive' New Orleans clarinet players came from musically!

Yes, of course, By all means. Suggest away. The actual nitti gritti specifics of the latin
or spanish influence on jazz are not widely know by many fans.

> The afro-latin influence has been around in jazz for a very long time.

Yes, of course, since the very beginning of jazz. The "Spanish Tinge" reference in the
first paragraph of the original post reflects that. Those words are associated, by many
trad jazz fans, with JRM. Specifically, it should suggest to the reader that the "Spanish"
or Latin influence in Jazz is still progressing from its earliest roots, JRM etc. via
today's efforts of Lincoln Center. And historical accounts of the beginnings of jazz
discuss the African connection. I left out all that history in the belief that DJML
members know about it.

Steve Barbone

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