[Dixielandjazz] Sam Morgan band, 4/4, solos, etc.

[Brian Towers]

Charles and listmates,
A few more thoughts.  Interesting that the 1940's  revival bands of Bunk
Johnson, George Lewis, Kid Ory, Kid Thomas,  for example, usually went with
the 4/4 string bass sound as the norm - similar to the New Orleans rhythms
of Sam Morgan (circa 1927) . In spite of the fact that many of these guys
had played regularly in the 2 beat parade bands in New Orleans.   Then a
little later, many of the European traditional revival groups followed Bunk,
Lewis & Co and enshrined that 4/4 bass sound, for example
Barber/Bilk/Ball/Colyer/Lyttelton/Dutch Swing College/Papa Bue etc.  In the
UK and Europe, this sound has always seemed to be more prevalent and more
accepted than the brass bass, 2 beat sound.

Then another set of revivalists followed the Oliver, Piron etc  New Orleans
bands, with that two-beat brass bass sound, subsequently picked up by the
great bands led by Watters/Murphy/Scobey/South Frisco/Yankee Rhythm Kings
etc and a few European bands like early George Webb.    The 2 beat sound
reigns supreme in North America, it seems to me, particularly on the West
coast.   Also there are some great French bands who have developed that 2
beat style - Charquet, Hot Antic etc.

We all surely love a good solo - it is the icing on the cake but I believe
the cake itself is the ensemble sound of the band.  It forms the foundation
and inspiration for a good solo.   Louis' very simple solo over the Luis
Russell band on his first recording of "Mahogany Hall Stomp" is a good
example.  One long-held note from Louis sounds immensely exciting, because
of the rhythm, changes and riffs being put out by the band behind him.
Cheers,
Brian Towers,
Canada

http://hotfivejazz@tripod,com (band web sites)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charles Suhor" <csuhor at zebra.net>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Sam Morgan band, 4/4, solos, etc.


> Brian & all--
>
> I often wonder about the Morgan band's 4-to-the-bar bass line. It seems
> that the 2-beat wasn't merely what we associate with Dixieland but was by
> far the norm in the earliest jazz, and Morgan's style was an interesting
> departure rather than a  perfect prototype.
>
> Paul Barbarin said that he didn't hear 4/4 until his career was well
> underway, and almost all others who recorded in the 20's, including the
> jazz-influenced, mostly-reading bands on the "Jazz the World Forgot" and
> "New Orleans in New Orleans" CDs, were doing oom-pah two-beat, often with
a
> tuba and under the continued influence of march music. The banjo often
(but
> not always) provided a contrasting 4/4 but the tuba or bass fiddle and
> drums defined a feeling of "2" in the pulse.
>
> The Morgan tracks I've heard are for sure lusty, vigorous ensemble pieces
> that are beautifully driven by the 4/4 bass. Wow, when the full drumset
was
> playing on site that must have been a powerful sound!
>
> I also wonder if the merited appreciation of early no-solo group improv
> sometimes goes too far in the direction of devaluing the solo format that
> developed around the 20s. I don't see that in Brian's message, but soloing
> has been condemned by folks like Ralph Collins and Tom Bethell as
> everything from egotism to chaos. Hey, things changed, solos happened,
> Louis epitomized it, get over it. That didn't stink. Start a good
> all-ensemble band of your own if you want to keep working in that form,
and
> we can enjoy that, too.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> BRIAN TOWERS wrote:
>
> The rare Sam Morgan band recordings of 1927 represents a perfect 1920's
New
> Orleans styled jazz for many of us "hard-backed" traditionalists and here
> are someof the reasons:
> 1) The emphasis is on the ensemble sound, rather than the individual solo
> and so there is always a flowing and polyphonic counterpoint.  It really
is
> a team effort - no stars but good all round musicians who understand the
> art.
> 2) The string bass focuses on a powerful  "four beats to the bar" style,
> rather than the more familiar "two-beat" which we associate more with
> dixieland jazz., though the bassist also does some occasional 2 beat
bowing
> from time to time....
>
>
>
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