[Dixielandjazz] Listening to dead musicians - was Charlie Parker

[john petters]

Steve said
> Though I can't speak for Allan, I don't think he or I are saying one
should
> ignore the roots of jazz. We are merely saying that one can learn music by
> listening to anyone playing good music. As for me, it would have been
> impossible for me to appreciate Bird, without understanding the roots and
the
> earlier jazz players. Because what Bird does is based upon them.

Which is precisely my point. Coming into jazz at  the Bird or Coltrane level
is like starting to build a house from the roof down. You need the
foundations.

> I think both Allan and I agree with you that to play Trad Jazz, one needs
to
> hear Trad Jazz, then if a reader, get the music for trad jazz and
practice,
> then pay some dues in trad jazz bands. Then one goes out and gigs.
Listening to
> Parker will not diminish one's trad skills as I see/hear it. Listening is
what
> music is all about. But how long should a muso listen to the dead guys?

Are you still listening to Parker, dead for nearly 50 years or Coltrane, or
Clifford Brown?

> I take OKOM seriously, but I play it in my own way. And one does not have
to
> spend inordinate amounts of time listening to every OKOM musician that
ever
> recorded to figure out the style of music.

No Steve not every musician but certainly you should keep listening to the
key players, much as concert pianist would, I assume, continue to listen to
the great classical works.  Are you saying that with your years of playing
and listening experience that the Oliver records can teach you nothing -
that you have learned from them all there is to know. I know of long time
pro jazzers over here who are constantly revisiting these classics and
hearing new things. Are they perhaps less talented than you, who got
everything 50 years ago?

>It is relatively simple stuff.
> (sorry fellow musos, did not mean to give us away)
There is the real flaw in your argument. Traditional jazz played properly is
one of the most difficult musics to master. Sure a musician can play a lot
of notes - but do they mean anything. Are they soaked in the Blues? Where is
the band that is the equal of Ory or Morton or Condon?

 >Once you have listened, and
> found your own voice, I think it better to quit listening to those dead
longer
> than 20 years and concentrate on listening to the newbies, like Allan
Vache,
> Tim Laughlin, Kenny Davern, Evan Christopher, Jon Erik Kellso, Randy
Reinhart,
> Tom Saunders, Marty Grosz, Ed Metz Jr,  et al who are not trying to be
Johnny
> Dodds, Lorenzo Tio, Omer Simeon. Bix, Louis Armstrong, George Wettling or
> whomever.

What has the length of time that a musician has been dead got to do with
anything. If the music ever was any good it would be timeless - like
classical music. While the above are all good players, I doubt if any of
them would claim to be the equal of a Noone or Bechet or Dodds. By that
yardstick you are encouraging trad musicians to ignore 80 years of recorded
jazz in favour of what is around now, which would include you and me. Well I
am under no illusion. Given the choice of listening to a Steve Barbone CD or
one of my own against listening to the Hot Fives and I'll choose the Hot
Fives any day.
>They are the ones who will make this music relevant to the next
> generation.
>
I can't speak for all of the above musicians you mentioned, but I know that
Kenny Davern has a deep understanding of the roots of the music and is a
prime example of a first class player who has found a voice and is instantly
recognisable.

Anyway Steve, it is always great fun to engage in this good natured banter
with you, as I know you are passionate about the music and we agree on more
things than we disagree on.
Have a good weekend.


John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com