[Dixielandjazz] Re: Brit Trad & Louis' Development

[Stephen Barbone]

john petters wrote:

> Steve said
> > PS. Perhaps if UK trad musos had listened to more Parker, the world would
> have
> > avoided all that "awful British Trad" (only kidding, VBG ;-), not
> including the
> > couple of good bands)
> >
> Oh dear Steve. I do agree with you about the awful British Trad Bands, but
> they would have benefited more by listening to the roots players rather than
> Parker etc.

Probably so, my remark was a bit tongue in cheek and I knew you disliked most
Brit trad.

> It is understandable why Brit trad is bad because recordings
> were of poor quality and few and far between so it required effort. Pioneers
> like George Webb, Humphrey Lyttelton,  Acker Bilk, Cy Laurie & Ken Colyer
> and a few others made the effort. Many more did not and modelled their
> playing on Ball, Barber & Bilk. Of those three, Bilk's was the most exciting
> and closest to swinging New Orleans Jazz. But of course those that copy the
> copyists create a watered down version of a watered down version, which 50
> years on is still awful. Humph's early Parlophone records stand up to the
> test of time  - but - why listen to them and other Brit bands when you can
> now hear in better fidelity than ever, the Olivers, Mortons, Hot Fives etc.
> Can traditional jazz develop? Of course it can because each creation by
> musicians playing in the style is a development. It does not require rock
> rhythms from the drummer, nor does it require be-bop phrases from the
> clarinet player, or comp chords from a piano player. Art Hodes, when I
> played with him in the late 80s  when he was in his 80s was still
> developing, but he had not gone progressive like some players. He stayed
> within the form. Did Louis Armstrong stop developing? Why did he not follow
> the Be bop trail?

Why didn't Louis play bop? IMO, he couldn't. By 1940 he didn't have the chops.
Technical innovator that he was, there was no way he could then switch. He was
also totally out of the bop development loop. That scene in Minton's and
Small's Paradise during WW 2 when bop was developed.  Also, there was no money
in Bop then and Glazer would not have permitted it even if Louis had the chops.

Yes, I think Louis did stop developing, or almost so. As did Charlie Parker.
They were similar musical types in that when each found "his" niche, each
stayed with it. Bop, having started in 1940 or so, really died before Bird did,
but he did not change his style.

Trad died and was reborn several times during Louis' life, but once he found
his "style", he pretty much stayed with it. And he was very much controlled by
Joe Glazer and followed the money. I also think Hodes pretty much kept to the
same style, not going progressive or to bop.

IMO Some like Bird, Louis, Hodes, Bechet and others found their styles and
stayed with it all of their playing lives.

Some who changed styles over the years include Coleman Hawkins, Artie Shaw,
Coltrane, and of course Miles Davis.

Cheers,
Steve Barbone