[Dixielandjazz] Re: Better Players

[JimDBB at aol.com]

In a message dated 7/16/2003 3:12:29 PM Central Standard Time, 
barbonestreet at earthlink.net writes:

> JimDBB at aol.com wrote:
> 
> >In a message dated 7/15/2003 11:36:54 AM Central Standard Time,
> >barbonestreet at earthlink.net writes:
> >
> >>>As a cornetist, I think, relative to "high", that Hackett was right
> >on
> >>when he told the prospective buyer of one of his
> >>>horns that it was "like new" because he had "hardly ever played it
> >above
> >>the staff".
> >>
> >>Sure, agreed. But so what? That is how Hackett heard music. It
> >should also
> >>be pointed out that Hackett was no Louis
> >>Armstrong.
> >
> >  Steve...Bobby Hackett's remark was a joke.  Bobby was his own
> >unique and
> >beautiful soul.  One of the great standouts in the recorded history of
> >live
> >jazz concerts was the marvelous duet that Bobby and Louis played on
> >"Ol Rockin'  chair" at the Town Hall concert.
> >
> 
> We are saying the exact same thing here, Jim. I agree as do my words
> above.
> 
> >>"> No, list to Clifford Brown. And also, Louis was one of the loudest
> >
> >>trumpet players of his day. Loudness was a key ingredient
> >>of his playing as well as that of Buddy Bolden (by anecdotal
> >evidence). That
> >>is part of what made him great.
> >
> >  Loudness was not a part of what made Louis great.  Louis's sound
> >was
> >brilliant  which tended to make him sound loud on recordings but in
> >actual fact, if you were there, he was not playing excessively loud.
> 
> Louis' own words say: "When we made those Gennett records, Joe wasn't in
> his prime like before he sent for me. To show you how much louder I was
> in those days, those were acoustical records, with those big horns. Joe
> would be playing right in the horn, blowing, and I would be standing
> back in the door playing second trumpet." Do you deny what Louis said
> about his loudness? Were either of us there to hear him during his
> greatest years?  If not, then we have no valid opinion and should try
> and learn from what Louis said about it.
> 

  Well, I can't argue with the master himself.  You got me there.

> >>>But the mastery without taste and intelligence  . . . hey, Kenny
> >G!! .   I
> >>have met classical  (and some big band) players
> >>>who can play the Arban exercises flawlessly but who couldn't play
> >an ad lib
> >>solo to save their lives. There's more to it
> >>>than technology.
> >>
> >>Wrong analogy, Kenny G is hardly a master of his instrument. In
> >fact, he is
> >>less of a master than most  jazz saxophone
> >>players in Jazz today. That is part of why some players view him
> >with
> >>contempt.
> >
> >  Kenny G is a master of the soprano sax...he just doesn't happen to
> >sound
> >like sydney Bechet.   Kenny G has never advertised himself as a great
> >jazz
> >player and has shown no pretensions in this arena.  He is what he is
> >and he does
> >his music very well.  I don't know of any pros who 'view him with
> >contempt.'
> 
> Disagree about "mastery", disagree about pros who view him with
> contempt. There are MANY "pros" who view him with contempt. Shall I make
> a list for you?
> 
To deny Kenny G his talent and mastery is foolish.  I know that he is an easy 
target for disgruntled jazzbos but that shouldn't be.  Remember the same 
mocking and disparagements directed at Liberace.  the truth is that Lib was a hell 
of a pianist.





> >>Why quibble over definitions. The word got a "c" where an "e" would
> >have
> >>been better used. Big whoop. What Brown plays is
> >>much more difficult that what Louis played. He is also light years
> >ahead of
> >>Louis "harmonically".
> >
> >  You've made a lot of comments about Louis 'is this and that etc.
> >and now
> >this statement that Brown is 'light years' ahead of Louis
> >'harmonically.'
> 
> No, it is just a TRUE assessment of Brown v. Armstrong as far as their
> harmonic knowledge and execution is concerned. A natural development in
> light of the changing nature of music.
> 
> >This
> >shows once again that you really don't get Armstrong.  Maybe one day
> >you will
> >and your life will be richer for it.  Meanwhile, quit pretending that
> >you
> >understand and love Louis Armstrong's music
> 
> Why would you say something like that? Why would you pretend that you
> can look into my mind and assess my "understanding". Jim, you know
> better than that. To disagree is one thing, but to mis characterize me,
> or my love for Armstrong's music is quite another, as well as totally
> wrong headed.
> 
You've got me again.  I should never have said this and I retract it.

> Cheers,
> Steve


  Regards,   Jim Beebe