[Dixielandjazz] amplification in Carnegie Hall

[JimDBB at aol.com]

In a message dated 1/24/03 1:22:00 PM Central Standard Time, 
paul.edgerton at eds.com writes:


> 
> Jim Beebe takes issue with some of my assertions:
> 
> > A lot of great bass players are going to be surprised to learn that 
> > their tone quality and attack has been ruined from using an amp and
> > pickup.
> 
> Many bassists have no idea of what their bass actually sounds like--and how
> could they? Recalling my college physics, the wavelength of the low E 
> string
> is roughly 26 feet. It takes a fair amount of space for the sound to
> propagate. The resonances in a room greatly affect the bass.
> 
> Furthermore, an acoustic bass is a very complex collection of radiators and
> resonators. Sound emanates from all the surfaces, different frequency 
> ranges
> from each part. These sounds eventually merge to form the sound we 
> recognize
> as an acoustic bass. It's also what makes the bass a tricky instrument to
> record faithfully. One pickup (in the bridge!) is a very small sampling of
> what is actually coming from a bass.
> 
> Some of bassists have gone to great lengths to get a "modern" bass sound, 
> or
> to facilitate soloistic playing. These players actually don't want the
> acoustic sound of the instrument, they want something that sounds more like
> records. They have a different set of goals.

   Paul...aren't we going from silly to sillier on amplification.  
Amplification is here to stay.  Of course there are abuses of it everywhere.  
I have found that every gig setting is different and adjustments have to be 
made on the spot. This applies to the bass volume, the mikeing of the piano 
and guitar/banjo plus the horns.  Usually the reed instrument is the only 
horn that can use some amplification but this is always a variable. It really 
is up to the leader to balance the volume of everything in the band and this 
is not always easy.


> > It is one thing to have all-natural-holistic-unamplified jazz if you
> > are playing in a nice hall with resonant accoustics. But the reality
> > is that most jazz is played in clubs with lousy accoustics. Customers
> > and musicians have an annoying attitude of wanting to hear what is
> > going on. Hence some amplification is necessary.
> 

> Jim, as a musician yourself you know what happens when you stand in front of
> a rhythm section that's running amps loud enough to be heard by everyone in
> a large room. You can't hear yourself and so YOU PLAY LOUDER. You might ask
> for a monitor, but what you hear from that monitor won't be even an
> approximation of what the band by itself sounds like.

   Actually, when I use ( used as I am no longer playing) a monitor it is to 
hear myself with hearing jthe rest of the band secondary.  I was against 
using monitors for many years but finally succumbed when I realized that it 
was much easier to play when I could hear myself through the monitor.  But 
again this all varies with every situation.


>I agree. But I'll let you be the one to tell Kenny he's playing too softly.


   Nope...I'll let someone else tell him.  But as Barbone pointed out, Davern 
can play very loudly.

Paul Edgerton, who is ready to rumble!

.
Paul, one of the most disapointing gigs I ever played was at Carnegie Hall.   
Yes, the Carnegie Hall.  Some years back, the New York Jazz Festival had a 
Chicago Night and brought out 6 Chicago bands with a wide range of styles, 
from traditional to avant -garde.  This was an exiting event as most of these 
bands and musicians had not played at the NY Jazz Fest.  New Yorkers were 
really looking forward to it.  Mama Yancey, Art Hodes, Wild Bill, Jimmy 
McPartland Cy Touff  a leading Avant Garde group etc. were all on this. We 
got there in the afternoon for a sound check and were shocked to find that 
the venerable Carnegie Hall had hired a rock sound system...and a half assed 
one at that.  With the usual totally clueless sound man.

Some tried to go without any amplication but the sound guy was relentless, 
others tried to adjust but the whole situation was hopeless.  To make things 
worse, the sets were very short...40 minutes.  We just got used to the sound 
setup and we were done.

Norm Murphy ( wonderful Chicago trumpet player) and I were so bugged and so 
psyched up to play that we went over to Jimmy Ryans where Max Kaminsky was in 
residence. We politely asked Max if we could sit in and explained the 
situation. Well, Mad Max didn't want anybody sitting in...but Norm and I were 
so frustrated that we got out our horns anyway and started playing.  There 
was nothing Max could do about it.  We played a couple of numbers, had some 
drinks and made an ungraceful exit.

Jim Beebe, who is ready to roll....but is unable to.

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