[Dixielandjazz] stride vs. comp..rules???

[Patrick Cooke]

Dave, you seem to have missed the point of what I said completely.  You have
expressed enough "rules" to boggle anyone's mind.  Did you find these rules
in a book somewhere, or did you just make them up?
    Your "hierarchy" is really a new one for me.  I tend to regard the
rhythm section as the guts of the whole band.  If you want to add a horn
player or two, do so after you have a good rhythm section.  You put the
drums on the bottom of your hierarchy...I would fire all the horn players
before I fire a good drummer.  I can deal with a horn player who is not too
good, but give me good players in the rhythm section!
    I find rules to be antagonistic to the spirit of jazz.  They stifle
creativity, and lead to being permanently mired in the rut of mediocrity.
    Pat Cooke

----- Original Message -----
From: "David W. Littlefield" <dwlit at cpcug.org>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] stride vs. comp


> Whatever rhythm instrument one plays, one should do what's appropriate to
> the music genre, the basic style of the band, and what the others are
> playing. This requires knowing what the leader wants and constant
listening
> to the sound of the *whole* band. A relevant factor when playing in public
> is what has entertainment value to the particular audience; relevant also
> when making records.
>
> In OKOM, there's a basic hierarchy: Horns are at the top, piano, then
> banjo/guitar in the middle, bass below them, and drums at the bottom.
> Rhythm players have to understand that they are there to support the
horns,
> to provide a *floor* so the horns play better and the dancers can
> sure-footedly groove the roof. This is true whether the band play a 2-beat
> or 4-beat style.
>
> Piano is the prime fill maker, and constitutionally has the freedom to add
> some touches of syncopation, etc., at other times. But piano must be
> prepared to play straight rhythm, ie boom-chuck, or comp simply,
instantly.
> For example, the second he hears one or more horns playing syncops or
> riffs, he should boom-chuck, because square 4/4 will propel the syncops
> into the stratosphere; the other rhythm cats should do the same. The bass
> player may not like it, but 2-handed piano is part of the old music, and
> boom-chucking gives the rhythm a lot more "whack". Piano should try to
> sense whether the rhytmists want a little space to do fills. The other
> night guitar and I felt the bass want to fill the 7th-8th bars, so we let
> up and gave him the space, last half of tune just stopped at those
> measures; by then he knew we were giving him the floor, so he doubled his
> efforts; we did this for a couple of choruses, and it really lifted the
> whole performance. From an OKOM listener's perspective, the active
2-fisted
> piano adds to the entertainment value.
>
> Banjo/guitar are adjuncts to the percussion. Chunk, chunk, chunk! Listen
> for when piano gives some space. The extent of their freedom depends on
> whether the bass and drums are perfoming their proper roles! They try to
> learn what support each horn soloist prefers. They should consider that a
> constant hard 4 rhythm needs to be relieved regularly or it comes to have
a
> pounding effect. So: some off-beats, held notes, some syncops, glisses, as
> a change-up. Chunk-a chunk-a chunk-a style generally sucks, except that in
> an out chorus it's one very useful changeup for enhancing the intensity of
> the climax. I played/subbed on banjo with a couple of no-piano bands where
> the leader wanted straight 4/4; that was ok, except that whenever I
> listened to both bands off the bandstand, I found the unrelieved 4/4 to be
> colorless, boring, and give that pounding effect. So when I played with
> them, I put in a bit of relief. The drummer of one band used off-beats now
> and again, and standard fills; I usually played right along with him, and
> it was very effective, loads of fun to interact with him, and the
> hornpersons usually were delighted. But basically straight rhythm is
> required, and the main satisfaction for a string player must be to make
the
> band sound and feel better. Of course, the mindful leader will give
> stringplayer some solo space. String (especially banjo) fills and solos
> have decided entertainment value for the general public.
>
> Sorry bass and drums, but your role is basically straight rhythm. KISS. A
> few small changeups are cool, as is an *occasional* break, sometimes even
a
> solo--perhaps a couple per set. Your main creativity must be in supporting
> the rest of the band; of course, the drummer has more tools to work with,
> and that can have significant impact on the sound and feel of the band.
> Bass creativity has little basic entertainment value, can screw up the
band
> very easily.
>
> --Sheik
>
>
> At 08:57 AM 1/22/2003 -0600, Pat Cooke wrote:
> >      IMHO, stride is for solo piano....when you have a bass player,
leave
> >the bass notes for the bass to play.  I find a comping style much easier
to
> >play bass with.
> >      Also, a piano and a banjo(or guitar) in the same band is not a good
> >idea, unless they have played together long enough to know what chords
the
> >other will be using and when to make the changes.
> >      I've played with a number of groups where the piano and banjo are
> >playing different chords at the same time.....Maddening!
> >    Pat Cooke
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Charlie Hull" <Charlie at easysounds.com>
> >To: "Charlie Hooks" <charliehooks at earthlink.net>; "DJML"
> ><dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:51 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Solos vs. Banjo Styles
> >
> >
> >> IMHO banjo can be compared to piano in a band.  Some pianists can't let
go
> >> of striding or playing every beat even tho they can be set free by
letting
> >> the bass and drums carry the rhythm.  Ditto with banjoists -- many
insist
> >on
> >> playing a chord for every beat, while others -- epitomized by Bill
> >Dendle --
> >> 'comp' like a good pianist, doing off-beat sparks and tasty fillins.
> >> Depends on the band's makeup, too.  If you have both piano and banjo,
you
> >> don't want them both comping and filling at the same time.
> >>
> >> I agree whole-heartedly with Charlie Hooks.  A plink-plink-plink,
> >> chord-on-every-beat banjo or piano can really box in a soloist's
ability
> >to
> >> flow and use passing chords.  To me, it inhibits the imagination and
> >> creative juices.
> >>
> >> But we are each unique, thank the Diety.  Viva la difference!
> >>
> >> Charlie Hull
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
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