[Dixielandjazz] Re: 2 beat ; 4 beat

[Stephen Barbone]

Yes, it may well be easier to dance to by us rhythmically challenged folks.
Note however, that Louis Armstrong Hot 5 & 7 were 4/4 when playing jazz as were
most of the New Orleans Jazz Bands. The banjo just chugged along 4 beats to the
measure just about all of the time. And remain un convinced that the West Coast
Revivalists emulated King Oliver. I hear  lots of 4/4 with Oliver.

Also note the following, excerpted from writings by Jazz Maven Bret Arenson in
his work on the "Development of Jazz Drumming."

"Also in New Orleans style, the bass drum apparently kept a consistent beat on
down beats in 4/4 time. However, due to the limitations of recording techniques
it seems to be mostly impossible to hear (at least for me.)

Famous players of this style are Zutty Singleton and Baby Dobbs, both who
played with Louis Armstrong and His Hot Seven and with Jelly Roll Morton's
various bands.

In Chicago the style of drumming was quite similar. However the drummers in
this derivative style were fond of keeping a constant straight 4/4 beat on the
snare, sometimes with the use of brushes in addition to the techniques
mentioned above. This time playing with small accents on the upbeats would
become increasingly popular with the formation of the big
bands.

Early big band drumming sounded very similar to the older New Orleans and
Chicago style, however as the musical counterpoint in the new harmonized style
grew less complex so did the drumming. The brash choke cymbal was slowly
replaced in favor of the newly invented hi-hat, which consists of two cymbals
on a stand that are made to hit each other by use of a peddle. By the early
Thirties the choke cymbal was no longer heard in jazz bands. Kaiser Marshall,
Fletcher Henderson's drummer in the early Thirties reflects the newer style
with a smooth 4/4 on the hi-hat or the snare and less use of complex
accompaniment."

If Oliver was playing 2 beat, maybe that is one of the reasons for his
diminished popularity in the late 1920s and afterwards?

Cheers,
Steve

Texasjazzlover wrote about Barbone's post:

> Then came the West Coast Revivalists and 2/4. . . sigh. ;-)
>
> So we have an aging population of Revivalist Fans who were convinced that
> 2/4 is the
> original stuff. By bands that changed the style, rather than reviving it.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>
> I have been listening to music by King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band recordings
> 1926-28 and there is both 2/4 and 4/4... but mostly 2/4 which has the same
> feel as the "West Coast Revival" bands.
> Granted, he had left New Orleans by then, but the majority of the songs seem
> to be 2 beat.  Perhaps it is because it is easier to dance to??