[Dixielandjazz] Unwritten rules??/

randymillan randymillan@shaw.ca
Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:14:42 -0700

I guess I agree with most of the crowd here.  This philosophy:


No job is permanent
Nobody has a "right" to a gig
Nobody has a "right" to a job
A job is worth only what someone is willing to do it for.
In a free competitive society a person with a service or a product is

Would get you kicked out of the band I was running if you did it to me.
Sure go ahead and promote your band.  No one disagrees with that. But do
it on my time and you are gone and will never be asked back.

Randy Millan
Dixie North Jazz Band
Vernon B.C.   ph:  250.260.7744
web:  www.armenterprises.cjb.net 
email:  randymillan@shaw.ca
icq # 3377917

-----Original Message-----
From: dixielandjazz-admin@ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-admin@ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Bill Gunter
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:25 AM
To: Kmstrmldr@aol.com; dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Unwritten rules??/

Hi all,

What a fascinating thread (unwritten rules).

I have posted some fairly clear (I hope) observations on the practice of

passing out one's business card at a casual gig at a club.

I was not talking about a "steady gig" but my arguments ought to hold

Most of the postings to this thread are similar to Don Hale's post
he said:

> > I must disagree with my good friend Bill Gunter.
> >
> > Two things come to my mind........I think you should be loyal to the
> > that hired you.......

Loyalty is a good thing. When does 'loyalty' end? If 'loyalty' is a 
permanent thing then it would be 'bad form' for a sideman ever to
approach a 
club manager. Would you, as a sideman, give up your right to pass out a
EVER at that club because of a sense of loyalty to a leader who played a

casual there once?

Is it the case that you must be 'loyal' during the gig but that sense of

loyalty has no effect the following day? I'm afraid I don't understand
"loyalty" issue. A sideman is hired to play a casual and gives up his
to solicit a gig from the manager . . . I don't think so.

I know, I know . . . to most of us this practice (handing out your card
on a 
gig) seems to violate some sense of 'fair play' and my gut reaction is
is in poor taste.  But my gut reaction tells me that I ought to have the

right to give a potential customer my card if I so desire.

You have a casual gig to play a reception at a club. From whence arises
notion this is "a permanent gig" and it is unethical for anyone else to 
approach the manager.

I think we've been reading too many Louis L'amore novels where the hero
the western always "rides for the brand."

Don Hale concludes by saying:

>and............The leader of the band playing probably did the leg work

>get the gig in the first place.

Hell, he may have even given the manager his card while he was a sideman
some other band. Just because person "A" hustles a gig is no
to deny the same privilege to persons B, C, or D.


No job is permanent
Nobody has a "right" to a gig
Nobody has a "right" to a job
A job is worth only what someone is willing to do it for.
In a free competitive society a person with a service or a product is

Don Hale concludes:

> > It doesn't seem right to me that a "temp" should take advantage of 
> > the leader's work and ask for a job because he happens to be where 
> > the
> > has gotten the gig.

This is the most important argument offered so far . . . "It doesn't
right."  But the words "it doesn't seem right" are not the same as "it
NOT right."  Often what SEEMS right may be totally at odds with what IS 
right. And what IS right is your freedom to ask anyone for a job.

Bob Ringwald, in another post to this thread, alluded to a musician in
town who has shamelessly hustled gigs from managers and then fielded a
standard band. I know who Ringwald means and this individual is a
joke in this community. I personally have no warm and fuzzy thoughts for
and I would personally never accept a gig from him.

BUT . . . what gives me the right to tell this guy he shouldn't go out
hustle gigs? Hey? What what what?

I'm not talking about what SEEMS right nor am I talking about what
should expect from their co-workers nor am I talking about some
sense of ethics which drives such matters.

I am talking about the way business is conducted in our competitive and
and open society. I'm talking about how nobody has the authority to deny
your fundamental rights in the United States of American.

Finally, let me state that I AM a loyal sideman on any longterm gig I've

ever played with any band.

But let me also state that a CASUAL gig is a one time shot and doesn't 
"belong" to anyone whether he is the leader or the final arbiter of
behavior in the matter of casual bookings.

Respectfully submitted,

Bill "Fighting for Truth, Justice, and the American Way" Gunter

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