[Dixielandjazz] Dixieland was George Lewis

D and R Hardie darnhard@ozemail.com.au
Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:45:22 +1000

Dear Steve,
I think Sudhalter felt that the later Chicago
style was developed in NY by refugees from
Chicago. There may be  problems with any
definition but I agree with  Brian.  We do need to
have some idea of what we are talking about.
People here think of Dixieland as different from
the later New Orleans style of  Bunk Johnson or
that of  Turk Murphy. Dave Robinson's list is the
best attempt to define the various styles I have
yet seen. Perhaps it could be simplified but as I
think he has left the list I don't think he can
engage in the debate. I have just asked him by
email if he is on the djml now. I don't know what
do do about those who confuse Bop with traditional
jazz - perhaps a hearing aid? How do you explain
it to them?
Dan Hardie

Stephen Barbone wrote:

> Hi Brian:
> I don't disagree. The trad jazz educators site
> and Wyndham are pretty much in
> agreement. The trad site a little too structured
> and complicated for my taste.
> Example, "New York Style" is different from
> "Nicksieland"? To me they are the
> same thing with minor differences. And two
> different Chicago styles?  For me,
> all the bands playing a particular style play it
> differently, however, that
> does not justify another "style" name. And some
> folks might argue about the
> site's contention that the later Chicago style
> was developed in New York.
> Stride pianists playing in a Dixieland band play
> Dixieland. But played alone,
> Stride takes on a distinct musical style and it
> is not Dixieland. Same for the
> singers, if they sing in a Dixieland Band, it is
> Dixieland. If singing in a bop
> band it is bop, blues band it is blues etc.
> There is room for all musicians within
> "Dixieland", if they play polyphonic
> counterpoint. Trad jazz may be an all
> encompassing term but to the 40 year olds
> today, it means Bird and Diz.
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
> briantowers wrote:
> > Hi Steve,
> >
> > I have seen these sub-divisions of dixieland
> before and the concept falls
> > short, in my opinion. There is no place for
> the New York stride of Fats
> > Waller, James P, willie the Lion etc; No place
> for the blues of Bessie Smith
> > or the Jazz singing of Ethel Waters nor early
> swing nor Buddy Bolden's
> > ragtime, etc etc. - none of these styles can
> be called dixieland. Seems more
> > suitable to me to have the term "traditional
> jazz", as the
> > umbrella,  with dixieland as one of the
> various styles.
> >
> > The best attempt (and it can only be an
> attempt!) at defining the various
> > OKOM jazz styles that I have seen is
> > "A Traditional Jazz Style Guide"  by Dave
> Robinson.  it can be seen on the
> > Traditional Jazz Educators network web site. 
> Anyone interested can view it
> > at http://www.prjc.org/tjen/styleguide.htm
> > In my opinion this is a more meaningful
> explanation than the attempt by Tex
> > Wydnham
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